Carl Richards shares his innovative approach to getting client referrals, moving away from traditional uncomfortable methods to a more authentic strategy that focuses on genuine conversations over coffee.
Through real examples and success stories, Carl demonstrates how asking clients for business development advice can lead to unexpected opportunities and valuable relationships.
Transcript
Jordan Haines: Hello friends, and welcome to another episode of Elementality. My name is Jordan Haines, financial vital specialist here at Elements your host for today’s show, but only for a little bit. We’re going back in the archives to listen to one of our most played, most popular episodes of Elementality. Something we released about two years ago, a discussion between Abby Morton and Carl Richards about [00:01:00] soliciting and obtaining client referrals.
It’s a really unique and interesting way. To solicit the client referrals. So with that, I’m going to stop talking here and we’re gonna get to the show. Would love to hear your thoughts. So if you have any questions or thoughts, please feel free to email us podcast@getelements.com or you can find me on LinkedIn.
Jordan Haynes, H-A-I-N-E-S. And with that everyone, let’s get to our conversation between Abby Morton and Carl Richards.
Abby Morton: Welcome to Elementality! Today. I’m your host, Abby Morgan here with Carl.
Carl Richards: Hi, Abby.
Abby Morton: So excited. Yes. Talk about some more marketing tactics and how we can. Power them up. Um, today I wanna talk about something very specific and, um, I’ve had some insight into some things you’ve done over at the ins. Uh. I’m sorry. Over at the Society of Advice, you have created this whole workshop around referrals and what does that mean?
And uh, the little snippet that I read, uh, actually today about it was something about how, you [00:02:00] know, it’s almost like the number one tactic that advisors can use, or some practices only grow through referrals. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s so hard to do, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s hard and it can feel icky and wrong, and like when you think of those.
Northwestern mutual salesman. You know, you just think like, I will never do that. Yeah. So let’s talk about how today we can do it in a very tactful way. Yeah. And I think you’ve, as I’ve looked at your course, have kind of come up with a very tactful way that I think is unique and different and really works.
Carl Richards: Yeah.
Abby Morton: So let’s talk through that. Um,
Carl Richards: yep.
Abby Morton: How, how do you think that initially, like how do you start asking for referrals in a way that doesn’t feel like that? I. Icky salesman.
Carl Richards: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe it’s important just to understand quickly. It, it feels like the way, at least the way I was taught to do this Yeah.
Was, um, something like, and I can remember very specifically, uh, in an office not far from here, actually one of my [00:03:00] biggest, most important clients, I sat down with him, his, let’s just call him David. And I remember saying to him what I was taught. Which was just, I, I’m uncomfortable. Yeah. Even talking about this, let alone the fact that I said it.
I said, David, this is what I was taught. You pay me two ways. One is the fees you pay me, and the other is by introducing me to your friends and family.
Abby Morton: Oh, wow.
Carl Richards: That, that’s what I was taught. And David was like.
Abby Morton: And I think most were taught that same way. Something like that, right? Yeah.
Carl Richards: Yeah, for sure. Like you can, yeah.
There’s a, a million variations of that, but it, the, the idea, the consistent idea is I’m gonna put a burden onto the client Yeah. That they did not sign up for and is not comfortable at all. And David said, let me get something straight with you right now. I pay you in exactly one way, and if you want me to pay someone else that one way, I’d be happy to.
Wow. And I was [00:04:00] like. Got it. Like I won’t ask that question ever again. So, so that was my, that was my introduction to how to ask for referrals. And I was like, and then, and then the other thing that’s important to understand here is you ask most advisors how they get their number one source of new business.
Mm-hmm. They’ll say referrals. And then you say, how do you do it? And they’ll say, I don’t know. People just call like, so it’s true. Let’s get this right. Your number one source of the most important thing in your business is new clients and the number one source of new clients. You don’t know how it works.
It’s like some weird black
Abby Morton: box. Just magic, right? Yeah. Yeah. It just happens.
Carl Richards: So I think we’re all like, we all kind of share that. So the way I approach this, and I, I’m positive, somebody taught me this. Like, none of these ideas are mine. And if I knew exactly who it was, I would give them credit. But there’s so many people over the years that have been so helpful to me.
But it was just a simple question. Right. And, and again, it goes back to this idea of curiosity. Like if, if referrals, if somebody, if, if a, if, if I have a [00:05:00] happy client that I like working with, I want to replicate them. I’d like more people just like them
Abby Morton: who wouldn’t? Right? Yeah.
Carl Richards: So if introduction, if them introducing somebody to me is good for me and it’s good for the person who’s getting introduced because that’s the best way to meet an advisor.
Right? Well, who would know better how to do that than my client?
Abby Morton: Yeah.
Carl Richards: So I was like, well, what if I just asked them and the question, and again, I believe I was taught this question that I start, I went and asked and I, there’s, here’s what I would say. Again, we use coffee as another excuse, right? Because there’s no, there’s no time limit.
It’s so important. I don’t care. It’s the concept, right? If you
Abby Morton: learn one thing from these episodes, it’s just ask someone for coffee, right?
Carl Richards: It’s lower the pressure. Yes. I like that at every single place. Give yourself, I’m trying to leave myself and listeners. No place to hide. Yeah. Right. So these are just a series of righteous tricks.
All of these [00:06:00] marketing concepts are a series of righteous tricks to get you to play in traffic. That’s it. ’cause I don’t care what you do. Breakfast meeting, email list, white paper, Twitter, who cares? As long as you do it consistently, you will get results. Yeah. So this is the same thing. So, um, let’s just say that I’ve got a client named Sue and I really like working with Sue.
And let’s say, let’s just add in the niche thing just to make it consistent. Let’s say that Sue is an entrepreneur that’s had a successful exit over 10 million, and that’s who I wanna work with. Okay. So I asked Sue, Hey Sue, we’re making some changes. We’re considering some changes in the way that we go about, and you can insert the word marketing or business development.
Okay? We’re making some changes in the way we go about business development here at the firm, and I’d love to get your advice. Could we meet for coffee sometime for just 10 minutes? I ask you some questions. It’s very similar to, uh, the question that I would use like around a white paper, but just a little, the little differences.
Yeah. We’re making some changes. I used to just say we’re considering some [00:07:00] changes at the firm and that led to like what kind of changes. Yeah. So now I just insert like around how we New acquisition, business development. Yeah. That seems to be the word Everybody kinda likes. It. Sounds a little better than marketing.
We’re making some changes around business development. Okay. But how we go about business development and I’d love to get your advice. So Sue says Sure. So don’t ask anybody who’d say no. Right. Make it easy on yourself. Only ask people who respect you are are like you.
Abby Morton: Well, and I wanna draw, come back to Sue is a current client of yours.
Yeah. That you like,
Carl Richards: that you’d love more of and you want
Abby Morton: to do more work with people like them. People like Sue. Yeah,
Carl Richards: exactly. Okay. Now it could be if you don’t have any clients, the, like, maybe you have a hundred clients and you don’t wanna replicate any of them because we’ve been, some of us have been in that situation.
It you could, you could have a friend that. Is the type of client you’d like and would be a client other than the fact that they’re a close friend? Yeah. It could be your brother-in-law who, for whatever reason, you don’t wanna work with your brother-in-law. Good idea. Right? But they’re the kind of person that, [00:08:00] except for the fact they’re a brother.
So it could be, but let’s just stick with clients. Sue’s a client. I’d like more people like you. So you show up and sue, you sit down and you say, Sue, thanks so much for taking the time. And you’re just honest. And you say, Sue, I’ve really enjoyed Now, none of this can be lies. So if you haven’t enjoyed working with Sue, don’t ask Sue.
Right. I’ve really enjoyed working with you, and I would love more clients just like you. If you were me, how would you go about that?
Abby Morton: And you’re turning the responsibility back on you, right? Yeah. Because that’s where, in your first story it went wrong, is you put all the pressure on the client. Yeah. Yeah.
Like you send me these list of names, right? Yeah. Can you
Carl Richards: make a list of your friends and family?
Abby Morton: Yeah. And, and who can I reach out to? Yeah. Whereas now you’re saying. Sue, I like working with you. I think you’re so great. I want more people just like you. What can I do? Yeah. To, yeah. Run into those people or to find out more.
Yeah. Where they, that’s exactly
Carl Richards: right.
Abby Morton: Live, read, work. What do they [00:09:00] do? How can I be inter find them?
Carl Richards: Yeah. Super smart. So you’re not going into this, by the way. I think the same posture as if you were writing a white paper or something like that. The same posture would be curious. Right, right. Investigative, journalist, academic.
You’re actually not trying to get SU to introduce you to somebody. That’s not the goal. You don’t have a goal because I’m gonna tell you, I’ll tell you a couple of stories where. The goal, like I would’ve never considered that, and it was so much better than anything I would’ve considered. The golden response here is not necessarily, I was just talking to Jack.
You should meet Jack. The golden response could be way bigger. Way better. Yeah. And so you, you, and, and I just want you to consider, well, we’ll get through it, but I want you to consider worst case outcomes here in a minute. So. So we asked, Sue, I enjoyed working with you. It’s been great. I’d love more clients just like you.
If you were me, how would you go about that? And then you just quiet. And that is a really good question, which by [00:10:00] definition, most people have not been asked before. So they, I’m not actually interested in questions I know the answer to.
Abby Morton: Yeah.
Carl Richards: I don’t know the answer to this question, and Sue may not either.
And so that silence. In this next moment is gonna be, could feel awkward, but it don’t take it as awkward. Take it as a sign. You asked a really good question. Yeah. Because Sue will be like, whoa, that’s a, and she might even say, my favorite response was, gosh, that’s a really good question.
Abby Morton: Yeah. Start counting in your head to 10 or 15.
Yeah. So that you don’t talk.
Carl Richards: Yeah. Just, just allow it to sit there. And then there are some things you could do to prompt. So let me take you through a couple examples. Yeah. Um, so. Uh, you know, response number one, let’s do worst case first is, gosh, I have no idea. I, I mean, I just never even thought about it.
When you get response number one, you can either pull the rip cord, ’cause remember it’s just a [00:11:00] coffee and you can say, oh, yeah, that, yeah, I, I mean, I, look, I, I, I realize that’s, it’s a new question. Um, so if, you know, give it some thought. If anything comes to mind, just shoot me an email. How, how are the kids?
I’m not suggesting pulling the record, I’m just saying what would be wrong?
Abby Morton: Your first one might be awkward, and you might be new at this, and you might want to pull that root cord and just get outta their way. And
Carl Richards: what happens if you had a, if somebody felt res, like you respected them enough to ask them, you didn’t make them feel gross.
The worst outcome is, gosh two. There’s two things happen. Yeah. And the worst outcome is. And this will happen. You do this 10 times. Again, this is a 10 time rule. You do this 10 times and at least two people will say, oh, I didn’t know you wanted new clients. At least two. Totally right? And so you’ll have the worst outcome is Sue now knows that you interested in new clients just like her.
Now remember the niche you can say, so I’ve loved working with you, [00:12:00] and I would love to work with more entrepreneurs with a successful exit just like you right now, she knows. You would like more entrepreneurs with a successful exit just like you. Right? And she feels if you do this the way I just described it, she feels honored.
You would ask.
Abby Morton: Totally.
Carl Richards: And then you spend 10 minutes talking about the weather, how’s the ski season was, what’s going on with the kids? Okay, cool. Hey, by the way, just let me know. You can always just email me. Thanks, Sue. Boom. There’s nothing bad about that.
Abby Morton: No. Nothing. There’s
Carl Richards: nothing. And if you did that 10 times and you had that result in all 10, which you won’t, it, it still would produce results.
Yeah. Right. Exactly. So that’s outcome. Now the other version of that, like I have no idea. I got to the point where I, I actually love that. I have no idea. ’cause I could test an idea and the way I’d test an idea is just say, Hey, I met with John. Who similar I, I just met with somebody else about the same thing and asked them and they said that they, and like insert, like one of my favorite ideas, which we may or may not cover in this podcast [00:13:00] is breakfast meetings.
Right? Yeah. He was like, John mentioned to me holding a breakfast meeting once a month, like if I were to hold a breakfast meeting where the only goal was to make people more prepared to make smart decisions with money. And it would be specifically about entrepreneur for entrepreneurs, a success successful exit.
Is that something you would come to? And you just test it? Oh, no. I hate breakfast. Oh, okay. Interesting. Right. Yeah. Somebody else suggested I run an ad in LinkedIn. Oh, no, I never looked at like, you can just test ideas. Right. Oh, thanks for that. Like, that’s,
Abby Morton: that’s helpful feedback for me to know, right? Yeah.
Like, that’s, that’s a a point that maybe I didn’t have before.
Carl Richards: Yeah. This idea for breakfast meetings, one of my favorite concepts came from this exact conversation, so a guy named Jerry said. Oh, my dad used to go to these meetings. If you had one, I’d bring six people. So that, that, that’s like result number two is you get an idea that, like an idea for breakfast meetings.
Let me give you another idea that [00:14:00] Christine gave me. Christine was the techno, a, a, a sales person at tech, a technology firm, made a ton of money and, um, she was like, oh, that’s such a good idea, such a good question. She’s like, you know what? I got into sales because I really wanted to have control of my time and the main reason I wanted control of my time is so that I could ski in the winter and golf in the summer and I never go.
’cause I’m just always so busy. So if you set up, this is crazy, like if you set up a tee time each Friday at one for a foursome, I’ll make sure I’m there with two people you should meet. And I didn’t golf. I was about to learn because of this, but it was fall. So I was like, Hey, would that work? Skiing? Yeah.
Like half day skiing on Friday. And she was like, oh, totally. And we skied with Steve and Scott. I remember the first time, and it was a great day at Snowbird. Let’s Powder. And I remember Steven Scott thanking me over and over, and they both became big clients. I can trace, if you were to trace a web of my [00:15:00] early business, Christine, Steve, Scott, da da, da, da, da.
Like probably 40 clients. Yeah. From that idea. Single idea. So that’s like. An idea for marketing. Right. You know, totally. You know, uh, client appreciation event was another person, another one, you know, could you, if you did an event where I could bring my kids and they could learn a little bit about money and also have a little bit of fun and, and my non-interested, and I, I didn’t mention which spouse this was, but it was like my non-interested in money spouse.
That could have a little bit of fun. It’d be really cool. So we did this, we invited a concert pianist to play, talk about the benefit of the creativity and the process in his writing. It was a guy named John Schmidt and he played and he, the in between songs, he’d talk about how he wrote the songs. And I still have clients, still have people that were clients back then say to me, that event you did?
Yeah, well that was somebody else’s idea, right? So ideas you just, and what if somebody gives you a stupid idea? Like, have you ever thought about putting a billboard on the freeway? I don’t know if that’s a dumb idea, but it sounds like kind of a waste of time. You’d be like, gosh, that’s really, do you [00:16:00] what?
Do, what do you, you could ask more questions. Yeah. Like, I’m so curious. You had mentioned that is what, what do you think that would do? Thanks so much. I’ll keep that on my list. Yeah. Right. And then the third outcome is the one we always think of is gold. And I actually think the second outcome is the gold is like these ideas that could generate more and more clients.
The third one is literally like, gosh, I was just having this conversation with a friend, like. Would it, you know, you, you should talk to is Johnny, lemme give you his email address. Yeah. Or his phone number. Now this is really like ninja skill. If somebody offers to give the name or email address or phone number, we know what will most likely happen if we call that person cold.
Abby Morton: They’re, yeah, they’re, it
Carl Richards: doesn’t serve anybody.
Abby Morton: No. They don’t wanna talk to you. They don’t know who you are. Yeah.
Carl Richards: Yeah. So it’s pretty easy to say, gosh. Sue, thanks so much for that. Like, like deeply honored. You would trust me with that. Um, and then you [00:17:00] just pause like you’re a little puzzled and like it’s a new idea that just occurred to you and you can say, Hey, you know, I, I, I wonder like I, I know how I respond to people who call me cold, especially about money.
I know how you’d respond. Yeah. ’cause I remember, right. But do you think, do you think, Johnny, you, Johnny and I, what if just. Do you think Johnny would be interested? What if we just grab coffee together?
Abby Morton: Right. You could do that. You could even do it. I think something a little more simple, but again, it’s always good to have coffee.
Coffee with people as we’ve talked a lot about.
Carl Richards: Yeah. But
Abby Morton: like, Hey, would you mind putting me on a group text with
Carl Richards: Yeah.
Abby Morton: Sue and Dr. Right? Like you Yeah. At the very simple. With the three of you, would you mind introducing us at the most basic level, right? Yeah. Like let’s do an
Carl Richards: Totally. Would you mind do that?
Would you mind texting, introducing us?
Abby Morton: Could you, could
Carl Richards: we get together? Hey, remember a couple times ago we talked about those breakfast meetings I like to have? Yeah. Do you think Johnny would like to come with you to a breakfast meeting? Right. Like you, you’re just thinking of ways. It depends way how have going?
There’s a number
Abby Morton: of different things, right. You could pull [00:18:00] that into
Carl Richards: Totally. So I think that, that to me is the way. If you, I have, we, we’ve been doing this for a very long time. We teach a workshop, we’ve taught a workshop on it. In the past, I’ve never had anybody do 10 and not get a new client. Yeah. It’s, it has not happened.
Abby Morton: So tell me though, we live in a day where advisors are serving clients all over Yeah. The US right? And so you, you’ve talked a lot about like, get with that person and have coffee, but like they are in California. I live in Utah, but I really do wanna pick, you know, Jonathan’s brain that lives in California.
Carl Richards: No, you don’t.
Abby Morton: I do though. You don’t wanna pick Jonathan’s
Carl Richards: brain.
Abby Morton: Oh. We’re not picking anyone’s brain. I really like that phrase. This is, I guess I should not be using it. This, this is my job.
Carl Richards: This is my job. I got it. Sounds so much like it hurts. So you can keep using it, but use the right
Abby Morton: words is what Carlos, I really
Carl Richards: wanna get that person’s advice.
Abby Morton: Yes. Yes. So how would, like, how do you go about doing that? When we live in Yeah. A world today where we’re not always talking to the people who [00:19:00] live right next to door. Face. Face,
Carl Richards: face. Yeah. Yeah. I look, I think there’s no argument that face, face-to-face. There’s the emo most emotional resonance in a face-to-face meeting, right?
And we’re not always there. So how hard is this to do? Hey, can we have a quick conversation over Zoom?
Abby Morton: Yeah,
Carl Richards: and I, I, I learned in that, I, a couple different people did this to me in the, during the pandemic. They ordered DoorDash to my, they were like, Hey, let’s have virtual coffee. And they, or they would order me, my favorite drink, whatever, tea, hot chocolate, coffee.
They would order it, it would arrive, Hey, what? We’re gonna meet at the, there’s gonna be a knock on your door five minutes before with a drink for you. Like, I always thought that was really cool, but it’s really required. I love
Abby Morton: that extra little, you know, thing of just like, oh, I got this little,
Carl Richards: Hey, should we have lunch together?
Cookie at my
Abby Morton: door? Like I want a cookie. Yeah.
Carl Richards: What if we have lunch together? I’ll, what are your favorite tacos? Right. I’ll have ’em delivered. You’re in California? I’m in New York. You’re having tacos. I’m having tacos. We’re meeting over lunch. Yeah. But yeah, like how about an afternoon snack? Is there a cookie that you like locally?
Yeah. How about a pint of Ben and Jerry’s? Like, whatever, but, but that’s not even necessary. Right? [00:20:00] Really? It’s like, Hey, could I have 15 minutes over Zoom? Just ask you, ask you some questions. Yeah. I’d love to get your advice about what we’re thinking about business development.
Abby Morton: Great. So even do it virtually
Carl Richards: for sure.
And
Abby Morton: can you do it over the phone or would you like Yeah, I, or do you think, I think we’re
Carl Richards: moving down in terms of emotional context is like in person. Video, phone and then email and I’d put email, like in person, video, phone, and then email. Like way, way far away.
Abby Morton: The opposite end of the spectrum. Yeah. But Don, like you’re not,
Carl Richards: I wouldn’t even do it.
What
Abby Morton: you’re even saying is like, you’re not emailing Sue to say, I wanna work with more people like you. Who can you introduce me to? Yeah. Yeah. ’cause it gives that icky feeling again. For sure.
Carl Richards: And, and let’s just, just, and I know you didn’t mean it this way, but the question who can you introduce me to is exactly what we’re not the, the, the feeling we’re not trying to get across Right?
Right. Is, yeah. Hey, who can you introduce me to? It’s more like, I wanna work with more people like you. I’ve really enjoyed it and particularly the [00:21:00] niche, the problem I wanna solve.
Abby Morton: Yeah.
Carl Richards: Um, if you were me, how would you go about it? You’re open to the, I, like, I, you really have to be like, you have no agenda.
Because I would’ve never imagined breakfast meetings,
Abby Morton: right.
Carl Richards: I would’ve never imagined skiing or golfing. One of the guy, one of the people I did this with, the, the client was like, gosh, it’s crazy you should say this, but there’s a group of us, 20, we’re all ex, like, you know, we’re all, I think he worked with, um, uh, with, uh.
Orthopedic surgeons. All orthopedic surgeons, and we do a sailing trip every year and there’s an extra spot and we’re gone seven days and there’s 20 of us on the boat. Would you like to come? You’re like, how do you not like, would you have ever thought that that was so that’s why you’re just open, right?
Like open to the ideas? Anything? Yeah. Anything.
Abby Morton: So great. I just, again, remember like you’re [00:22:00] asking them in person, you’re. Not picking their brain, you’re asking them for their advice. Yep. Um, and, and you’re looking at it as just a very curious way to learn and, and get some new ideas from someone.
Carl Richards: Yeah, for sure.
And you’re honoring and respecting the ideas, even if you’re not gonna do them.
Abby Morton: Right.
Carl Richards: And then the other ones that are really like, Hey, if you had a breakfast meeting, I’d bring people. If you decide to do it, you follow up with Jerry and say, Jerry, hey, I, we’ve put together this breakfast meeting. Um. I’ve definitely saved a seat for you, but if you’d like to bring other people, I’d love to have you.
You don’t hold the, you told me you would bring six people right. At every step. We’re looking to be like gracious and and thankful for their help. Nice.
Abby Morton: Appreciative. Yeah. Yes.