Host of Elementality, Jordan Haines, CFP®, invites Ashley Quamme, founder and Fractional Financial Behavior Officer at Beyond The Plan, to talk about the most important emotional jobs that advisors need to be aware of when serving clients.
In a world where personal finances and emotions are so intertwined, Jordan and Ashley explore some important considerations including:
- Making sure your curious enough to identify when an emotional thread may need to be pulled.
- Why advisor may not need to be the person that navigates the emotional side of money, but why advisors should have someone available to navigate that job.
- And the importance of advisors doing their own work with a behavioral specialist so they can be aware of their own emotional reactions to money.
Transcript
Jordan Haines: [00:00:00] Ashley, thanks for joining me today. Um, there’s probably a lot of people listening to this that have never heard your name or are just seeing you for the first time. Like, I think I started noticing you, uh, two or three months ago. In other interviews and, uh, on social and things like that.
So why don’t you introduce yourself? I think you have an interesting background as to why you’re here. So tell the people listening about you and what you’re doing today.
Ashley Quamme: So my home discipline is in mental health. I’m licensed as a marriage and family therapist. And so I have been practicing for about 15 years now. Primarily in the couples and family space. I have my own practice here in the Augusta, Georgia area. So for any golf enthusiasts, they would be sadly disappointed to hear that I, I don’t play golf, uh, nor do I know much about it.
Uh, but I’ve been practicing here, um, for, you know, for here and in Augusta for 10 years, really just in the couples, uh, family [00:01:00] arena, My husband, I do like to share he’s a CFP. And so part of that interest in coming into the finance space, you know, I give him some credit to, I don’t know if I would have had as much of an interest or seen it through that lens.
Had he not. You know, had I not been married to him? Um, but you know, maybe five years ago, 2018 ish, um, started having a lot more just couples land, uh, on my couch where they’re talking about money. And I felt really ill equipped with how to help them around that because shockingly, they don’t teach therapists about money or how to deal with, you know, money issues that show up therapeutically. So I kind of went on my own, you know, journey. Google searched some things, uh, had some great conversations. And, you know, from there went and became certified as a financial therapist, um, which turned into them becoming certified as a financial behavior specialist through the financial psychology Institute. [00:02:00] Uh, and all of that culminated really probably two years ago, 18 months ago in wanting to do more than just therapy and seeing where the financial services industry. Was, um, you know, and, and trying to figure out where could I fit in to that space? How could I help? How could I be impactful? Uh, and so I landed on the offering. Um, I’m saying it like it was just such a quick and easy journey, but I landed on the offering of fractional financial behavior officer. So Currently, I serve, um, as a financial behavior officer for smaller RIA firms or planning only firms, um, where we do, you know, a lot of the things from the, you know, the. Kind of buzzword out there is the human side. Um, you know, but we kind of do an implement a lot more of a holistic type of approach or [00:03:00] practice. I do coaching with clients that do some aspects of financial therapy. We, um, incorporate financial psychology into the onboarding process. And anyway, lots of things I could go on and talk about, but that’s the role that I serve in for, um, for firms presently.
Jordan Haines: So are you in that, in that capacity, in that role, are you spending, are you working directly with clients or are you mostly coaching advisors on that team? Or is it a little bit of both?
Ashley Quamme: It’s both. I like to explain it. And, um, maybe this is, I don’t know how many listeners will actually get this. I’m, I’m going to be optimistic, but if you’ve seen the series, Ted lasso,
um, have you seen it? Have you
Jordan Haines: Fantastic. I love it. Mm
Ashley Quamme: Awesome. Wonderful. Um, So I have explained it, um, as I am kind of like the Dr.
Sharon, you know, Dr.
Jordan Haines: hmm. Mm hmm.
Ashley Quamme: she works with like the teammates, right? They’re the players, right? [00:04:00] And then she also is working with like the coaching staff. And so I view. Affirm, right. The, the players, the, the soccer players are kind of like the clients here. Um, the coaching and like staff as are the advisors, um, you know, the team members.
And so kind of like in a doctor sharing kind of way, you know, working kind of with both aspects there, you know, to really make sure that it’s a well oiled machine and that things are, are working well. And, you know, at least in the firm aspect that, um, both the advisor. Um, the firm and also the client’s wellbeing are being attuned to
Jordan Haines: Yeah. You know, I think that’s really valuable because, um, as I stepped in this space, when I moved from financial advisor to kind of working directly with advisors and not with clients anymore, um, I found that a lot of people like me will either work with one or the other. A lot of software providers will create technology for one or the other.
Um, at elements, we created something that’s really interesting and that it’s for clients, but it’s also for the advisors. And so there’s like these, sometimes [00:05:00] there’s competing, uh, conflicting realities and things that we need to deal with. So there’s this aspect of what you’re doing that I think is really valuable of you are coordinating the emotional needs and balancing that out with both the advisor and the clients.
And you know, both because you’re working with both and it keeps you close to the problem and it helps you be able to identify them. And I think that that’s. That’s really fascinating. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen, um, someone like you who does it with both. Usually it’s, um, I just consult the coach, right.
Or I just consult the clients as like this fractional thing. And I think that’s really valuable what you’re doing. What would you say?
when you look at most of the clients that you’ve worked with or, uh, the clients who work with advisors that you work with, what would you say is like the most common emotional job that they want done from their advisor?
Like why? Why would I go hire an advisor? I know a lot of times we have these functional things like save money on taxes or I have liquidity and I want to invest it. Like that’s obvious. I think a lot of advisors get that, but there’s usually something under the [00:06:00] surface and I’m, I’ve found that sometimes there’s some commonalities between clients.
What would you say is like some of the most common emotional problems or emotional jobs clients are coming to advisors to solve?
Ashley Quamme: There’s just, you know, I think by and large, there’s a desire for most clients, how conscious it is varies and depends, but I do think that there is a desire to be understood, to be seen and to be heard around this area of their financial wellbeing, if you want to call it that. And I think that clients are seeking out advisors. That are aligned, maybe with those values, but can also help them with that aspect of it. I think that another, you know, reason or, you know, emotional rate kind of job that, that clients are, are looking to is also validation, um, being able to [00:07:00] be validated that however they’re thinking their own relationship with money, their wants, like they’re neat, like those things are okay. The thing that I find that advisors sometimes don’t realize is that for most of their clients, they don’t have anybody else in their life that they can talk to about money, uh, in, in such an a, a, a deep emotional way. And so when I’m working with clients of firms, like they will make comments to that, I have nobody else in my life to talk to about this.
It’s like, you guys are the only ones that I can really share some of these things with. And that includes family because money is so personal. It’s so emotional. It’s very deep. And even within family systems, healthy family systems, there are aspects, you know, that money can bring up that, um, people may not feel comfortable talking to their family with.
And so, you know, the emotional job here, you know, is, is, is. To be able to validate, right, your [00:08:00] clients and help them, excuse me, feel seen like in heard. And I think also to kind of hold that space or that understanding that you might be the only one that a client can talk to about some of these things.
Jordan Haines: Hmm. It makes me, makes me think of all the times where, like, I’ve heard some versions of that, right? Like this human side of money arrive where people are at, understand their situation, what’s important to them, understand their values, right? And I, and I’m ashamed to admit this, but I think oftentimes as a financial advisor, I look at that and I say, you know, I’m gonna do this thing because I know that they’re doing something wrong and I want to fix it.
Is that, is that like a common sentiment that you see with financial advisors of like, I I’m like, I’m the solution provider. And what’s interesting is what you described did not, there were no inherent solutions in that. It was kind of just like this person exists and they need to talk to someone about this.
And that seems to be incredibly [00:09:00] valuable to clients. Is that, am I. Am I the only person that thinks that way or do you find other advisors that feel that? Yes,
Ashley Quamme: solution. I’m married to one. So, you know, any, any, broad, right. It’s like, let’s fix it. Right. And so I’ll be honest, like part of my job also, you know, as a clinician too, as a therapist, there is also that part of me that I hear clients bring in like problems and I want to help them fix that.
And, and of course you do, because you don’t want. Your clients to be in distress, right? Like ultimately,
like that’s not what we want. However, you know, moving to that place of jumping in and just fixing, um, sometimes can really kind of bite you in the butt. And so for financial advisors in particular, they’re in this unique place because part of their job is to provide solutions. [00:10:00] There is very much a large part of that job. However, there is also a large part to just sit in the trenches with your clients and just be, uh, and just be with them so that they may not feel or, you know, alone and whatever it is experientially that they’re going through. And so that discernment of knowing when to jump in with problem solving mode, right, when to go into
fix it mode and when to just sit and be in a tune to Their emotional state or, um, whatever story it is that they’re sharing with you, um, you know, experience that’s, that’s not easy.
Um, it’s also, I don’t think it’s explicitly taught from everything that I can see.
Uh, and it takes a lot of practice. Um, yeah.
Jordan Haines: How do you, how do you bring that into a service model though? So this, this is where my mind often goes when I, when I think about this is, I know how deeply important it is to my clients to have these [00:11:00] types of conversations, to, to be a validator in some cases, to just listen, to be there for them. And I’ve often put it into my own service offering.
And I know that sometimes that emotional job that I’m satisfying for clients is probably the most important of all the things that I’m doing as a financial advisor, but it’s not the most acute. That I’m doing it like, like when a client hires me, they’re coming because there’s some functional thing that they need done and I’m a functional solution provider.
And so I provide that thing. How do I like, I guess this is the question. How do you counsel advisors or how do you do this yourself? How do you create into your process into your service, the space for people to feel comfortable to come and express those feelings? Because there’s, I, yeah, I’ll just leave that open.
Yeah.
Ashley Quamme: I think sometimes Advisors think of it like a, like a parfait, like it’s very like separated, you know, like a yogurt parfait, like things are very
[00:12:00] separated, right? You got like your yogurt, you got your fruit, right? Clean lines. And the reality is it’s a lot more like a smoothie. Where you can’t really, it’s all blended together, right?
You can’t really see the separate ingredients. You know that they’re all there, but you can’t really see it. And so when it comes to, you know, at least the emotional balancing, like that emotional and like kind of problem, um, you know, solution aspect, it’s a lot like a smoothie. It’s not a, it’s not a parfait. And so there are a lot of nuances there in terms of how you’re engaging, um, from body language to. Words that you’re saying. Um, I, I find that advisors aren’t wordy. Um, like they’re very, like, you know, do a lot of fluff and they’re when,
when they’re talking with clients. Yeah.
And, um, there was part of me that it was surprised by that.
And then there’s another part that’s like, I shouldn’t be surprised. My husband, again, like, you know, I’m married to somebody
Jordan Haines: I’ve [00:13:00] heard one. Yeah.
Ashley Quamme: I understand this. Right. But it’s a lot like a smoothie. It’s all, it’s all blended together. So in terms of how, like, it’s really all done at once, it’s in a step by step process of your client comes in for a meeting,
you’re reviewing whatever is on like the agenda. Um, I know for you guys with elements, the, like the vitals, right? You talk, you guys talk a lot about that. You’re reviewing that. And so within that place of review, there are a lot of very small things that can be done that are attuning to your client’s emotional state. That are building rapport that are creating trust that are creating safety while also doing the, if you want to say solution part, but you know, the tactical part of, of your work,
Jordan Haines: That’s really interesting. I have a couple stories and thoughts on there. Um, The process, like the very process and step sequential order side of me wants to say, you know, step one is do values. Step two is do planning, right? [00:14:00] I think what you’re describing is, well, maybe you’re, you’re in the business of doing planning, but if you exercise that muscle of being curious of identifying those, those aspects that are emotional, that you might need to pull the thread on that could be valuable.
I remember early on, um, my career, I had a, had a new client. Um, and I was trying out a new way to kind of pull values, like what’s important to people. And I remember I said, okay, um, I want to try this new way. So we’re going to have a meeting just for that thing. And I sat down with a client. Um, and I started asking some questions and they were just like blank stare at me.
Like, we don’t want to talk about this right now. We didn’t hire you to talk about this right now. And I said, okay, so we, you know, I kind of fumbled and move my way through it. And then we, the next meeting, we just said, we’ll just get back into the normal stuff. I remember about halfway through that next conversation and this was all functional type work.
I noticed them like cringe when I said something like, and I said, wait, wait, wait, let’s stop. Let’s talk about that. And that opened up a more emotional conversation than I ever had with that client in that original thing that was set aside specifically for the behavioral [00:15:00] emotional finance side. But it came up because they were responding to something.
And I think what you’re describing to me is that oftentimes these emotions around money come up in response to certain, like there are triggering things that come up and there’s a muscle, there’s an art that we have to exercise to it, much like, um, my, my wife and I, uh, My wife really likes dark chocolate.
And for her birthday, uh, I ordered a bunch of like fancy artisan chocolates and they gave you this booklet that tells you how to taste them. You rub it in your finger, you smell it. You got to taste the nodes of where it’s at. And I’m like, I can’t taste anything. And she’s like, Oh, I, you know, I can kind of get a hint of like strawberry in here.
And I’m like, that’s incredible. That’s kind of what this feels like to me, right? Like there’s these things that we have to exercise and become really curious on what they are so that we can pull that thread with clients. Do you, is that resonating with you at all?
Ashley Quamme: it does. And I think the challenge there is for advisors practitioners is that if they are uncomfortable [00:16:00] themselves. With emotions, you know, attuning to that, uh, they’re likely not going to pick up on or see, or they may even actively like avoid. You could have very well chosen in that moment to avoid that, you know,
kind of cringe.
Right.
Jordan Haines: Yeah.
Ashley Quamme: Yeah. Like if you felt uncomfortable. Going there with your client, uh, you could have easily chosen to just, you know, you would notice it and been like, oh, I don’t know what that’s about, but I’m just going to keep going with the meeting, uh, and moving that. And that could have been a choice and right, wrong or indifferent, like, you know, there’s no judgment there, but.
I think the challenge is, is when advisors aren’t comfortable or when they have not gone to those emotional places themselves, it becomes a lot more difficult to help your clients navigate that or to help walk your clients into those places. So, you know, you asked kind of how earlier, like how I go about doing that.
And one of the things I’m very passionate about is, you know, helping advisors understand that there [00:17:00] is a self element here that in order to. Be a great like practitioner. You have to also know yourself and your own inner workings. The psychology of financial planning, right? From the CFP board talks about the interaction between planner and client.
That is, it is that intersection of attitudes, beliefs, um, you know, behavior that. Really, we’re talking about here. And so there’s the client side that, you know, you and I, we could talk all day long, but one of the forgotten pieces from what I see, my opinion is the advisor side of that too, and understanding how and what role you play in that interaction.
Jordan Haines: This is like, this is, this is making me second guess a lot of things, a lot of choices that I’ve made as a financial advisor and working with clients that I’m, it’s now starting to make sense. Right. Being able to pull these threads, be able to be curious. Um, these are really valuable. [00:18:00] Let’s talk about the industry a little bit larger.
One of the, one of the main reasons we’re talking, why I reached out to you. It’s because you had a post talking about, Hey, you know, the, I think it was something along the lines of, uh, the, the future of this profession. You believe that every firm should or will have like a behavioral financial plan or behavioral financial officer.
Uh, you’re nodding your head. Yes. When you look at the future of this industry, And you were, and if you were to say, this is the one thing that I want to change, is that what that would be? Or is there something else that you’re like, man, I just really want, I think that this needs to happen because this is what is going to make an impact on the world.
Here’s what you think there.
Ashley Quamme: Yeah, I would say largely. Yes. Um, if any of you are familiar with Dr. Jim Grubman, uh, with his work, he wrote Wealth 3. 0. Um, really, really, uh, kind of fangirled the other day. I was able to have a conversation, uh, with him and, you know, we talked about some other things and, you know, Part of his work and his legacy and [00:19:00] this idea of wealth 3.
0 and the transformation of the financial industry. And, um, you know, he shared a similar belief that the industry is moving this way where it is incorporated, um, more of the psychological, um, you know, emotional aspect to it. And so, yes, like I stand, you know, I stand behind kind of that post. I do
believe like the future, like my hope is that every firm has. Some sort of behavioral specialist, whether it’s a psychologist, um, whether it is a marriage and family therapist, whether it is a financial therapist, whether it is, um, you know, a financial behavior specialist, whatever that is, but some type of. Behavior specialists there. That’s a part of the practice that can really help with the psychological aspect, not only just for clients, but also for the team as well.
This is a, it’s a reciprocal relationship, you know, between planar and client. And I think sometimes we just focus on. On one on one side, like the [00:20:00] client side, understandably so, but there’s a whole other side that also has to be attuned to because it impacts the whole system. So the future, I think there is, you know, greater understanding of that concept in and of itself. Um, and I think one of the ways to do that is by inviting professionals or specialists onto the team that can really help ensure that that happens. And, and, you know, In the future, then of the firm and well being of clients.
Jordan Haines: I love that. What, what do you feel? So I’ve often said to advisors that I mean with technology and with where things are going like AI, all that fun stuff where a lot of the functional things, the answers to functional questions are at our fingertips are really easy to access that the advisor of the future is going to be one that spends most of their time interacting with clients, being able to manage relationships really well.
And I think with that is also the behavioral side that we’ve talked about so [00:21:00] far, managing all those emotional jobs. Do you feel like there’s a difference between I think what you’re describing is. Advisors do advisor things like answer those functional questions, do the things that advisors have done in the past.
I think what you’re describing is everyone should also tether themselves with someone like yourself or a family therapist or something like that, where there is someone there that can manage those behaviors, the emotional side of this whole thing that should be separate from that advisor. Um, is there a world in which maybe advisors serve that role?
Or do you feel like it’s important to have those two things separate? Right? Like if, if we were to take, you’re married to a CFP, right? If you were to just all of a sudden learn and know all the things that a CFP would know and how to like give advice that way, would that, would that satisfy that need, or do you feel like it’s, it’s important to have them separate?
Does that make any sense?
Ashley Quamme: Yeah, it does. Um, I mean, I think both can be great and they can live it’s, you
know, um, I know [00:22:00] a few CFPs who are also, um, mental health practitioners licensed as mental health practitioners. I call them like unicorns because there’s really not many of them. Um,
and some of that might just come down to how many CFPs actually have that desire to go out and get a mental health degree.
Jordan Haines: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes me ask the question, like, can I be an expert in that many things? Right?
Ashley Quamme: yeah, I think
Jordan Haines: a skill. This is a skill.
Ashley Quamme: Well, and do you want to be right? Because we all have our own blind spots. And so, you know, um, to the extent that I can learn, you know, the CFP like competencies and, you know, sure I can go and learn that, but do I really want, but do I really want to, and, you know, will I know them proficiently?
And to your point, like, Can I be an expert in both? Maybe. I don’t know. I don’t want to say no, but, um, I also think that there’s value in having somebody else to see things that you can’t. Bounce ideas off of, um, you know, not kind of be in a [00:23:00] silo if you will, when it comes, when it comes to that. So sure. I would answer your question.
I was like, sure. I think that you can be both. Um, I don’t know how many would want to be,
uh, you know, um, to those that do, I say kudos to you. Uh, kudos to you.
That’s wonderful.
Jordan Haines: Yeah. I think when, when I have conversations like this, uh, with folks that have the expertise that you do, And, and I would like to think that I’m above average with advisors of like managing emotional things. I have a natural degree of curiosity. I love exploring those things. But then I hear a lot of these conversations.
I’m like, man, I don’t know anything when it comes to this world, right? Of, of behavior, like you went to school in this, you know this, you’ve had so much repetition in this space of just managing those emotional conversations. Um, but I think that that’s really valuable. So I’m convincing myself that, You know, a better option than what we have today is financial advisors can manage both, right?
They have somewhat. And I think, um, Oh, the human side [00:24:00] of money, Brendan Frazier, right? I think what he, his work is really important because it’s, it’s just helping advisors notice, Hey, look, there’s a human side of this thing that we need to address. I think that’s important, but maybe a more idyllic future is to have someone associated.
If I’m a solo advisor, I have like a fractional, uh, behavioral financial advisor like yourself, or, uh, if I’m a team, I can have someone in house or someone that I can reference to someone that we can go to not only for our clients, but for also for ourselves
because money is emotional for us too.
Ashley Quamme: I think
Jordan Haines: important to have those.
Yeah.
Ashley Quamme: the thing to think about that, you know, I’ve, I’ve said before to advisors and my clinical supervisees, um, when I’ve supervised, uh, you know, pre licensed clinicians is you don’t have to be everything to your clients. You don’t. And in some ways you probably shouldn’t be everything to your clients. So for, you know, advisors, you don’t have to be the estate attorney, the tax professional, you know, like you don’t have to be [00:25:00] all of those things. And that is okay. I don’t think that clients expect you to be all of those things. Sometimes the best gift that you can give clients is by bringing in someone who is more specialized in a particular area. Um, you know, whether that’s a, one of the financial domains or maybe it’s on the, you know, behavioral psychological side. So, you know, for advisors, I think some, from what I hear, they feel this sense of pressure of, you know, not only do I have to learn, um, all of these. Um, you know, areas within, you know, finance, but now I’ve got to also be like this communication expert and attuned to like my clients, like psychology, like, Oh my gosh, um, you know, some might feel like they want to be in the fetal position,
uh, but that, so, you know, I think that the last thing I would say kind of around that is just, you don’t have to be everything for your clients.
It’s okay if you’re not, and, you know, focus on the, on the things that you. Are really [00:26:00] great at your own kind of zone of genius and then, you know, find where the gaps are and connect or bring in other specialists to help in those gaps.
Jordan Haines: Yeah. All right. Those of you listening, you hear, heard it here. If you like spreadsheets and analysis and nerding out, and that’s what you want to do, that’s okay. You don’t have to learn all the emotional stuff. If that’s, uh, uncomfortable for you, if you don’t want to do that. Um, tether yourself to someone like Ashley who can help navigate that for you.
Cause it is important, right? I think, I think we’re both stressing that part of finances and financial advice is important. We don’t have to be all things, all people. And it’s okay to not want that yourself and also to not want to learn it. But if you decide to do that, be intentional about it. And I think find someone like yourself that’s going to help them with that.
Um, that’s how I would reflect back to you. I’m practicing
Ashley Quamme: You’re doing a great job.
Jordan Haines: to me, listen to me. I’ve been practicing. Um, what, what do you feel? Um, [00:27:00] well, I’m going to ask this question. We might not include it if you don’t want me to include it, or you don’t even have to answer it if you don’t want to.
Um, what is one opinion that you have around financial advice and financial services that might be against the grain might be a little bit unpopular, but you feel deep in your soul that it’s true. Hmm.
Ashley Quamme: I kind of mentioned it earlier that I believe that advisors should be doing their own work. Um, and so I, that can get a little bit, you know, vague. Um, so I’ll compare it to at least the mental health side of things. Um, most therapists. Whether that was in their graduate training program or just on their own accord. They have experienced being on the other side of the couch, they go or have gone through some type of therapy for themselves to understand themselves in a better way. And some of that, a lot of that is to not only help them be a better practitioner, um, but to also [00:28:00] ensure that their own messiness doesn’t. Interfere with the work that they’re doing with clients. We call it countertransference. Um, and so really that’s just kind of a big old fancy word for you get triggered by your clients. Uh, so couple is, uh, you’re meeting with a couple and they start arguing and you find yourself shutting down because couple conflict brings up a lot of distress and discomfort for you.
And yeah. Maybe just maybe it’s, um, attached to some earlier experiences. Maybe your parents fought a lot. Um, so one of the opinions I have is that I believe advisors should be exploring their own inner workings, um, the ways that they think, feel, and do. That’s what I like to say, um, and exploring, you know, some of where those blind spots might be.
It doesn’t mean that you have to go to therapy. So please hear me. I am not saying that. I think every advisor needs to go to therapy in order to be a [00:29:00] great financial advisor. And that is not true, but you do need to have a level of understanding around yourself, your own biases, your own attitudes, maybe even your own money story, um, and understand, you know, how you think and feel around those things, uh, so that. You can serve your clients well.
Jordan Haines: Where do we go for that? So, I mean, not everyone has to go to therapy. Are there resources today that like. If I were to go tomorrow and say, Hey, I need to do this. Cause I’ve never had someone talk to me about this, even though I’m a financial advisor, where would I go for that? Can I go to someone like you?
Are there resources out there for financial advisors that can do this?
Ashley Quamme: Yeah. I think one of the best places to start is with a financial therapist, um, and exploring just your own money story. Um, people think that in order to go to therapy, whether it’s general mental health therapy, couples therapy, financial therapy, that something has to be wrong. And that is not true. Um, you can go just because you have a desire to understand yourself [00:30:00] better.
And in fact, it’s actually really great to be proactive and do that. Um, so that you can, you know, I don’t know, potentially ward off any, uh, maybe hurdles that are down the road or navigate them smoother. So for advisors, maybe that are listening, that have an interest in understanding themselves, I would say connecting with a financial therapist. You can find, there are many of them. On the financial therapy associations website, they have a directory. Uh, you can shoot me a good old fashioned email and I will help connect you, um, with, uh, somebody. Um, you know, I don’t do that work with individual advisors. Um, however, I know a lot of fantastic folks that would, uh, I’m sure love the opportunity to be able to help and explore that.
Jordan Haines: love it. That’s a perfect lead in, um, actually, why don’t you, let’s, let’s let you plug in what you do, uh, what services you offer and where advisors can come to learn more about that.
Ashley Quamme: Yep. So as I said [00:31:00] earlier, my primary offering is as a fractional financial behavior officer. Um, my practice is beyond the plan. So you can find me on Google fashion, Google search beyond the plan. com. Uh, I also serve as the head of advisor training for data points. Uh, which is a, uh, behavioral, uh, financial behavioral assessment, uh, company.
So they administer assessments that way. So I serve as the head of training for them. Um, so you can find me and connect with me there if you have an interest in assessments or implementing them, uh, LinkedIn, which is where you and I connected, uh, I hang out on there quite a bit, uh, and Twitter as well.
Jordan Haines: Okay. You’re in a lot of places. Everyone reached out. We’ll put those in the show notes for everyone. Um, well, uh, thanks for this awesome conversation. I have so much more that I want to explore. Uh, maybe we’ll do another conversation. Ashley, you’re starting a new podcast. Um, I want people cause people who listen to this are likely podcast listeners. Let’s send them your way. What’s the name of the podcast and when are you going to [00:32:00] start releasing for it?
Ashley Quamme: Yeah. So as you and I are recording today, uh, so it’s July what? 3rd. Yeah. Early. It’s right before the 4th of July. That’s right. Yeah. So actually first episode, um, are released today. Episodes one and two today and tomorrow. So July 3rd, July 4th. Yeah. Um,
so for listeners, um, that are going out, there’s probably a few episodes that maybe are out. The name of the podcast is planning and beyond. And
Jordan Haines: a great name.
Ashley Quamme: thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Yeah. Uh, so that’s the name of the podcast. You can find me on Apple and Spotify there. Um, lots of great guests, um, that’ll be coming on. I don’t want to give any spoilers. Um, so although I will say, Oh, by the time that this is aired, um, you will probably see that, uh, Dr.
Megan Lurtz is one of our early guests. So she and I Have some fun conversations around this intersection of psychology and financial planning.
Jordan Haines: Oh, I love it. Oh, found it. There it is. Planning and beyond. I’ve got it flagged. I’m going to go mow the lawn this afternoon. [00:33:00] I’m going to listen to planning and beyond, and I’ll send you all my thoughts. I’m excited to hear some other guests. Well, um, thanks for joining us, Ashley. Uh, Any other parting words you want to leave with the listeners?
Ashley Quamme: No, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.