Jordan continues his conversation with Abby Morton about developing a financial coaching offering that effectively engages participants—especially in an employer-sponsored context. They delve into the challenges of capturing and sustaining employee interest, even when initial enthusiasm is high.

Jordan and Abby explore a framework that includes uncovering and articulating the true pain points clients experience. By helping clients name and understand their financial anxieties, advisors can foster trust, encourage action, and bring meaningful value at scale. Tune in to learn how focusing on the underlying financial “pain” can enhance your coaching approach and drive better engagement.

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Transcript

Jordan Haines: Welcome friends to another episode of I’m Jordan Hanes, but you all know that already. Today, we’re going to pick up in the middle of the conversation I had with Abby Morton, uh, giving us kind of an update on the. Uh, coaching. Offering that we are exploring here at elements. Um, in this conversation, we talk about some really awesome things. 

So my favorite are, [00:01:00] um, Abby shares an experience. You had recently about a call to action and capturing engagement from someone who’s in rolled in one of these programs. We talk specifically about this framework. I call customer perceived value. Um, and then we lean into one of the four aspects of customer perceived value. The aspect being pain. 

We talk a lot about articulating pain. I would say the big takeaway for me in this conversation is. How as advisors we can lean heavily into just articulating and correctly diagnosing the pain that our clients feel. And once having done that, being able to really capture engagement for people. So stick around great conversation, excited to share it with you. Enjoy the episode.

Abby Morton: I had this one actual, um, kickoff. It was a very small group of people and, but I had really connected with this one guy. Let’s call him Jim. His name’s not Jim, but we’re going to call him Jim and he was like engaging.

He was the one in the audience. I mean, there’s four of them, so there was not that many, but he was the one in the [00:02:00] audience who literally was answering or asking and answering every question was like, Oh my gosh, I’m so excited about this. My wife and I have been looking for this. We really need it.

Literally. I was like, this is gold. I was so excited. The most engaged person out of that room. And he still hasn’t reached out, and it’s been like six weeks, right? And so, that like puzzles me, and I know advisors feel the same way. It’s like, I had this amazing call with this person, and then they don’t do anything.

And I email them, and they don’t respond. And like, why is that? Like, we are feeling that same pain, right? It’s, it’s hard. People don’t want to think about their money. People want to hide from it. Um, I think people don’t know what they don’t know. I think I keep hearing from others just like, I don’t know what to do, so I don’t do anything.

Or I don’t, I hear this often is, I just feel kind of pessimistic, or I feel like there’s just nothing I can do, so I don’t do any, like I [00:03:00] don’t even think I can do anything, so why would I talk to somebody about my situation? And those are the people that probably don’t, that I’m talking to in this employer paid program because it’s free to them.

So I’m hearing that often too, that are just, so I, I think there’s so many different ways we could take this conversation, right? As to like, how do you help those people? Maybe let’s put a little bit more structure to Abby’s thoughts because they’re kind of jumbled right now, but the guy, so let’s be a little bit more specific.

So Jim, how do I get Jim to engage?

Jordan Haines: Hmm.

Abby Morton: Like what? What do we do when I literally we left and Jeff Morgan was at that kickoff with me He’s like Abby like you had that moment with Jim and he’s left feeling like I can trust Abby like I’m excited to go talk To Abby like even Jeff felt like the connection there and then the guy still hasn’t reached out And so

Jordan Haines: Can I ask you some

Abby Morton: I don’t I don’t [00:04:00] yeah, go ahead cuz I’m like, I don’t think we figured this out This is this is why our jobs are so hard So hard as when I say like financial consultants, coaches, advisors, whatever you want to call

Jordan Haines: who talk about money for a living.

Abby Morton: Yes. Yes. Hey, what are

Jordan Haines: Okay. So first I, I think let’s, let’s do a little context cause a lot of people listening to this are coming in like halfway through and like, well, what the heck is, what are they, what are they talking about? I think, um, for those of you who didn’t listen to the episode we recorded a couple of weeks ago, um, Um, Abby is employed right now figuring out a big problem, which is how do we have financial conversations at scale, specifically in this world of what we’ll call financial coaching specifically for employers and their employees.

Is that a fair characterization of like what’s happening here? Like let’s just zoom really

Abby Morton: a new thing we’re testing. So all of these ideas I’m bringing to you guys are, I’m just sharing what we’re learning and we want to help you figure out,

Jordan Haines: Yeah.

Abby Morton: you know, how to make your practices better. How can we make our business better? Cause it’s not an easy [00:05:00] problem to

Jordan Haines: Yeah, so we have this hypothesis at elements that by using this tool, it, it provides a really good medium for us to have these financial conversations at scale. And so when you say kickoff call, um, tell me if I’m wrong here. You can add a little bit more color to this, but in that kickoff call, that’s like the first conversation you’re having and like a group setting with like the employees of this organization.

Abby Morton: Correct. So we’ve sold the employer. The employer says, yes, we like this financial wellness, financial coaching program. We would like to pay for that for all of our employees. And so after all of those conversations have been had, we do what we call like a kickoff seminar. And that’s with the whole employee base.

And like, we have one coming up this next week with over 250 employees. Right. So we’re excited for that one. So this one I was just referring to just had four, but yeah, that’s the idea is it’s like a 401k guy coming in Here’s my

Jordan Haines: an enrollment meeting.

Abby Morton: helping them know what the program’s

Jordan Haines: Yeah. Yeah. So, so this is like the [00:06:00] first exposure they’re going to have to this program. Tell me like in its current state, obviously this is changing just in like, I hate the word elevator pitch, but we’ll just, because everyone knows what that is. Elevator pitch or elevator conversation, me, Abby, like what is this thing that they’re offering this benefit they’re offering to employ?

So this is the introductory conversation, but what’s the thing after that you’re hoping they engage with?

Abby Morton: Yeah, so I want to one quick Side note how you sell this program to an employer Is different than what you sell to the employee and

Jordan Haines: That’s

Abby Morton: I think that’s important. There’s two different like ways to approach the um The employer, um, sorry, there’s a different way you approach the employer. The employer cares about ROI and are people going to engage and how much am I paying for everybody or just a select group of people?

Like that’s what the employer cares about. And then the employee cares about, okay, if my employer paid for this program, then what does that mean for me? So we’ll focus on the ladder, but I just wanted, maybe we come back in a future episode of, right? Like, [00:07:00] how do you sell this to an employer? Because. I mean, we at Elements feel like it’s going to be really hard to go and ask, we call him the Jake of the world, which is just like the John Doe, the general person, the general consumer.

How do you get the general consumer to pay for financial advice? We feel like it’s very hard and you’re not going to be able to build that at like big scale. So that’s why we wanted to go to the employer instead, because the employer has an incentive to care about the employees. to do good by their employees to keep, to retain their employees, right?

And so that’s why we went the direction of the employer, because we can then have access to talk to more people because then they’re not required to pay for it. So that’s a quick aside. Maybe we should do a whole episode

Jordan Haines: Yeah.

Abby Morton: I think there’s a lot there, but so in the seminar, what Jake or Jim, or, you know, the employee coming to the seminar, what they get is unlimited one on one coaching, 30 minute meetings.

They get access to the elements tool and they get a financial content [00:08:00] of library. financial education library, basically. Um, and that recent, I are literally building as we go. Um, we actually thought about PR or publishing a couple of our episodes that we’ve created on elementality. So advisors can kind of hear like what we’re doing.

So maybe we do that as well. Um, but I think the main value add is like access to a financial professional, right? Access to this coach. They can message us back and forth through the platform. Um, and meet with us. Right now we’re saying unlimited. Maybe one day we cap that. But I have yet to find anyone. I actually finished conversations with people.

We didn’t have enough time. I said, I will follow back up with you later. And I have not been able to get them like back on my calendar. Because they’re just busy. And it’s not their top priority. So I’m like, you gotta just have quick conversations. Cause that’s what they really need and want.

Jordan Haines: So that’s super helpful context. So for those of you listening now, we kind of are caught up to speed. Um, Abby, you’re in a conversation, [00:09:00] uh, in a kickoff meeting with a group of people, let’s say a small group of four or five people, um, you’re introducing this program for the first time. The thing that you want them engaged with is, uh, one of these three things, which is coaching content and, um.

What’s the other one? Technology, right? So they can use elements to do that. So these are kind of the three things that they can interact with. When you say that, like Jim, let’s take Jim as an example. Um, and, and you’re expressing this concern that, Hey, you know, we have this really great connection. We had an awesome conversation in there.

I felt like he was really engaged, but it’s been a couple of weeks and Jim’s not doing anything. What is the thing that you want him to do? Like if it was there a call to action in that conversation that when you look at Jim and you say, he’s engaged, what are the things you’re looking to? Yeah.

Abby Morton: I mean, the call to action in the meeting Jim was a part of was schedule a time to meet with a coach. And if you have a meeting on your calendar, then you’re more incentivized to fill out basically your scorecard, right? Fill out your financial information. Honestly, we’re going back and forth with testing that some of [00:10:00] the other kickoffs we’ve done is fill out your information first, get kind of a scorecard completed.

And then as we talk and go through this. And we’re sharing basically the elements methodology. We’re sharing the vital signs that they Can like understand and follow along that’s also what the financial education we’re going to deliver to them every week Is really focused around is like the elements methodology.

It’s Understanding what liquid term means and what is a good baseline for liquid term? What is a good savings rate? How high? Should debt rate even be? What’s healthy? What’s not healthy? Like, so those are the things we’re trying to educate them on and in a digestible way in that

Jordan Haines: So would you say that like the call to action then in some form or fashion, like they’re kind of automatically enrolled in this or is this, do you see this like scheduling or filling out their information and elements? Kind of that enrollment thing, right? Like they’re doing this thing to opt in to whatever program this is.

Abby Morton: No, I think everybody is a part of it. I think that’s, I, as we all know, not everyone has a [00:11:00] question on their mind right away. Not everybody even has the time or the bandwidth to deal with their finances, you know, right when maybe that seminar happens. So we want to be there in three months, in six months, in nine months when they do have a financial question that comes up on top of their mind, right?

Like they do want to talk to somebody. So the idea is everybody’s opted in, everyone can participate in the benefit and you know, we hope that over the, over a year, like we understand we can’t go back in a week and say everybody engage and we’re done. Like it doesn’t work like that. Finances just don’t, right?

They’re a longer term

Jordan Haines: Yeah,

Abby Morton: So that’s why we hope over a year’s worth of time, people have consumed our content or have logged in and followed along with our episodes. Maybe they’ve, hopefully they’ve scheduled a time with a coach. That’s really where we think the value is, is like talking to an actual coach.

Jordan Haines: It makes me wonder too, like in this situation. So like, obviously those of you listening, we’re testing a lot. Like there’s a lot of figuring out that’s happening. [00:12:00] Like this is a very new model where we’re, we’re basically the value is not the financial plan. It’s not necessarily the financial advice.

The value is more in the conversation and the direction that you give to someone live right there. It makes me wonder, um, I’ve done enough presentations that there, there seems to be a trend. There’s always those like a couple of people that are super engaged, like live in the conversation. I ask a question, they respond, they’re nodding their head.

They’re doing all the things they want to. What’s always interesting to me is after the conversation, that person is often not the person to come up to me. It’s like the person in the back that I like, didn’t even know was there. They’re like, that was really good. Let me ask you a couple of questions. We need to have that conversation.

Maybe what this is, and this is me totally speculating here. Could it be some aspect of like, because that person was so engaged? It was almost like that was a proxy for their first financial conversation with someone. So you could see that like enrollment meeting that, that, uh, kickoff call is, Hey, that’s the first interaction that they’re having with someone.

And you are [00:13:00] providing a lot of value live in that call. Maybe you scratch that itch there and it’s not necessarily needed later, which is why you’re having a hard time getting them enrolled or getting them started. Whereas maybe there are other people in there that Maybe weren’t as engaged and want to have that one on one conversation with one, with someone.

It’d be interesting to see that trend. I’m curious what your reaction to that would be.

Abby Morton: No, I think, I, I think that’s a fair point. I don’t think that you could blanket say that applies to everybody, um, especially in the context of finances where. it would be so much more valuable if Jim got in and put his data in and saw what his scores were. Like, we obviously didn’t go there, right? And he was talking about, I want to understand that better.

I want to know if I, you know, he even used the word, like, I want to know if I’m diversified enough. And I Kind of chuckling, like, I wonder if he, like, really knows, like, what he means when he says that, right? So, maybe, like, maybe part of it is just, like, Oh, he has the peace of mind that we are here, [00:14:00] and, and maybe it’s the time of year, like, it’s holidays right now, right?

I mean, we’re kind of in the middle of, of December, so it’s Christmas season, and so I keep, I keep hoping that like in January, more people will engage. Like maybe it’s just a busy time of year right now, and no one wants to. And so I’m super interested to see if like the numbers jump up in January. But in, in that same vein, Jordan, of your example, his other coworker that was sitting there, it was really hard.

The only time I got him to say anything when I specifically called out the other coworker, he did say something when I literally called him out. And he was actually the first to schedule on my calendar after everything was over. So, there is something to be said about like what your hunch was. Like, there is some validity there.

Jordan Haines: Yeah. That’s a tough, that’s a tough code to crack because I think of like advisors. This is very much like bottom of funnel type of prospecting work. That, that you’re employed in right now, we’re trying to do it at scale, right? Like it’s one thing when you’re in a group of four people, it’s another thing when you’re in a group of a hundred people doing a [00:15:00] kickoff, like that hands on, like, I’m going to follow up individually with this person.

It’s probably not going to be. Uh, feasible at that point, but this makes me think like right now, Many of you listening know that I’m spending a lot of my time like in more of the one to one thing. So Abby, you’re doing a lot of like this one to many coaching, impacting a high volume of people, whereas I’m working with dentist advisors right now and I’m doing a lot of prospecting currently.

And I’d say like there’s this hypothesis or this framework that I’m exploring right now. And I think you know this at, um, what’s the name? What’s the, what’s the CS service? Oh, uh, they said. They used to be enough said there. They said now, um, they do an interesting thing where they’re kind of anti NPS.

Many of you might have heard that before NPS being net promoter score. I think that’s like the classic, like pop up you get in any tech tool. That’s like, how likely are you to refer us to a friend? Um,

Abby Morton: I

Jordan Haines: I just, yeah, I’m, I always just like skip. I can’t stand it. But so they don’t like it either. And you [00:16:00] go look them up and they’ll tell you why, but they have like this alternate scoring.

They call it CPV, which is customer perceived value. And the way that they kind of grade this is with four underlying, um, things. They’re four Ps. What we’ll call them. The first is people. The second is price, then problem

Abby Morton: Is product one of

Jordan Haines: is the, is the fourth one. Yeah. Or we could even replace that with like service in, in the case of like financial advisors, like you are selling a service or product.

So the way that I think about this is I’ve been prospecting is like I want to increase this people’s certainty in, in those four things. Like they need to feel somewhat good about those four things. Like they’re gonna receive value for them before I feel like I can get them to take action. And many times getting someone to take action is like one of the big advances is doing this financial assessment.

Or a financial hygiene exam, whatever you want to call it using like an elements scorecard. And so one of those four areas, like, let’s start with people. Do they trust the team? I think sitting in front of you right there, like having that kickoff call, they’re looking at Abby and they’re like, yes. And I [00:17:00] know that you guys do a lot of work around like.

Hey, we are not incentivized in any other way besides just helping you and having conversations. And I think that’s one way we help people feel better about the people side of it. The team that’s helping support this. I think about the price part. Like that’s not an issue because you’re not charging the employee.

You’re in charging the employer. So they’re not thinking about pricing. Um, I want to skip to product and service, right? I think you do a really good job at articulating. Here’s what the service is. It’s a call, it’s a conversation, it’s education and it’s this technology tool. And there’s not much else to it, right?

Like, here’s what it is. It’s right here. It’s tangible. You can see it. This is what you can get out of it. The one though that I’m really curious about is the fourth one, which is like pain or problem. 

It’s almost like people are not going, and we’ve seen this elements. Like when an advisor is purchasing elements, it’s almost like if the pain isn’t acute enough, They don’t see the value in it.

So they’re not, they don’t necessarily take any action. Like, yeah, so we have lots of people that will sign up for elements and they’ll be like, Oh, this sounds nice. Like it would be great for it to have. And it’s not acute. It’s just kind of like a problem [00:18:00] out there, but because it’s not front and center, they’re kind of like, well, I’m not going to do a lot of work around this.

So they don’t, they don’t take action. They don’t engage. And so when I think about like someone

Abby Morton: They don’t even buy like I think that’s the other thing is if you don’t have a strict exact pain in your life You’re less likely to even buy right you’re you’re less likely to engage which is why I feel like and I was saying earlier financial planning like It’s going to, you can’t just always expect them to engage right away because if they don’t feel that pain, they don’t have that problem, they don’t, they have no reason to want to

Jordan Haines: well, and I would characterize the pain differently because it’s all it’s all it’s like there’s a lot of advisors I talked to they’re like I wish I could talk to my younger clients better Right, like you’ve heard all of these like but it’s not acute, right? They work with retirees and they have a couple young people and they’re like man I wish I had a tool to work with them, but it’s not an acute pain It’s just kind of there it is a pain But it’s not acute and so I would divide that up and say the acute pain is gonna be the thing that gets people to Take action.

So Then one of my role initially in having these first time conversations, whether [00:19:00] it’s in prospecting or in these enrollment or kickoff meetings with this one to many format, the role might just be helping them identify their acute pain and drawing it back to what you offer. And so like, if someone is saying, let’s see if I can think of an example.

Well, let’s just, let’s just talk about Jim, right? This, this guy, Jim probably had a lot of these chronic pains. It was like, yeah, I wonder what, like, um, what was one of the things you

Abby Morton: Well, and that’s why I thought he’d engaged so much because in the meeting he was like, he was mentioning all these pains that he had or this problem he was literally like the night before trying to solve with his wife.

Jordan Haines: Hmm.

Abby Morton: And so because he had mentioned those pains in the meeting, I was like, this guy is, he’s scheduling a meeting this second.

And then he never did. Never

Jordan Haines: Yeah. And so maybe it’s just drawing a line from, Hey, this is the pain you’re feeling. Here is the exact way we’re going to help you answer that question or solve that pain. Like you, and step one is to blank. That’s hard to do in those one to many environments, like a seminar or something like [00:20:00] that. Cause you, cause you don’t want to just ignore everyone else in the room and say, Hey, you, Jim, this is exactly what you need to do, but it makes me wonder if there’s like, is there a set of questions or like ways that we can articulate this pain in a way where people are like nodding their head and saying, yes, I felt that before.

Yes. I felt that before. And then you say, you know, sign up for this program and. Here’s how we solve that pain. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer. This is me. Just speculating out loud.

Abby Morton: No, I think it’s a really interesting idea because Something that recent I have been brainstorming recently is like how can we help? Teach them what they don’t know and help them ask the like right kinds of questions. Help them see why Like this methodology behind elements, like why does that matter?

And how like, they can essentially help themselves if they just kind of understand the framework. I think elements being such a differentiated way to look at your finances is almost a good thing, especially for all [00:21:00] the advisors that are part of elements right now, because It’s still not like widely generally accepted in the market, right?

I mean, that would be my dream that literally everyone’s like, I want an element scorecard and I want to understand where I’m at. And so I find it super fascinating that that’s exactly what Reese and I were brainstorming yesterday and thinking about is, How do you almost, like, teach people what they don’t know, help them realize, like, how important this is, um, in a digestible, like, easy way, right?

Maybe if they understood,

Jordan Haines: Yeah,

Abby Morton: like, why liquidity is so important, right? So many people come in, and they have one or two months, if that, worth of liquidity. 

and so we all can know exactly like what their key pain points are and why they feel so stressed because they don’t have any liquidity in their life. And, and maybe, you know, you don’t feel like you can do anything, right? Bringing up the example I brought [00:22:00] up earlier, a lot of people feel like, well, I can’t do anything anyway.

So why would I talk to you, Abby? And I think even if you just saved a hundred dollars a month, or even if you just saved. You know, 25 a paycheck, right? That’s going to make a big difference over a long period of time. And it’s going to be something, whereas right now you’re doing nothing. And so I just keep thinking like, we have to have creative ways to bring this to their attention and to help them realize that doing something is better than nothing.

And I hear over and over again, well, I don’t even know what to do. Well, now I’m your person to go to, to help you know what to do. You have a trusted source to be able to help you make those decisions because. I mean, I agree. No one has a good way to figure that out right now.

Jordan Haines: You and I you and I were talking before this I have a point with this you and I were talking before about the working Genius, you know that I like I’m super obsessed with this and I’m honestly surprised I

Abby Morton: Jordan is so

Jordan Haines: I talk about everyone here knows that the Jordan Haynes Buds words like orientation, uh, special

Abby Morton: [00:23:00] Activation.

Jordan Haines: energy, like it’s all.

But working genius is one of those that I can’t express how obsessed I am with it.

Abby Morton: Hey, quick pause. Do our listeners even know? Like, you should go Google working genius. It’s basically a, a personality type survey to help you understand yourself, but also help you understand those around you. So we at Elements, all of us coworkers have taken it and we actually know how to work better with each other because we understand each other’s working geniuses.

And we can be like, Grateful that Jordan can do is wondering, you know, and Abby’s really good at just

Jordan Haines: we are the exact opposite. We’re the exact opposite.

Abby Morton: And so, but I love it because it’s, it’s allowing people to be who they naturally are and loving and accepting people for that. And in, in your workplace, like, I think it’s so great.

So quick aside, I like

Jordan Haines: The only, the only, uh, shaping I’d add to what you said is I would say it’s less of a personality assessment than it is a preference assessment. Like these are the things I like to do the most and therefore I’m naturally a little bit more gifted in doing, I get a [00:24:00] lot of energy out of it. Like these conversations, I love these things.

It’s so much fun. I get to invent and create and all that stuff. But the reason I bring that up is, is. Um, when I took the working genius, read the book, did all the things, uh, it was about 18 months ago. I did that. It put to words, this pain I had been feeling for a long time, right? Like, or, or this problem I’ve been trying to understand.

And I got these words and I, and I just was like, Oh my gosh, I can articulate what this means. And I think that’s why these assessments are so popular. I mean, you have Coby index, Myers Briggs, um, there was one I, someone made me take recently

Abby Morton: Spring

Jordan Haines: Yeah. Enneagram. Right? Like people like putting towards these things that they feel like we have a hard time, um, articulating or putting things out there and making it a little bit more tangible.

And sometimes I wonder if when in the world of finance, like you’re, you’re mentioning liquidity. And I think it’s really interesting. You bring that up right now. I was having a conversation with someone, uh, two or three weeks ago. This is a young dentist and they felt so much stress around their debt, right?

They’re like, I need this debt gone. It is causing me so much [00:25:00] anxiety. I’m like, And I’m looking at their situation and they have like a pretty healthy savings rate. Um, they’ve done a good job at growing their total term score. Their net worth is a good place, but their liquidity was like a 0. 2. Their liquid term score was like a 0.

2, which means like they had less than three months of living on liquidity. And, but frankly, if I looked at their debt rate as well, like their debt to income ratio was not that high. Like it was like. It was like 15 or 20%. And for a dentist, that’s like, that’s low. And they had, they had like

Abby Morton: I was way

Jordan Haines: ton of student loans, but they were so stressed.

Like it was there. And so I brought this up and I looked at the things and I did my classic orientation where I just like put words to this pain that they had. And I basically said, look at this debt rate, right? Like I look at this and as a professional, I think that’s actually pretty good. And so why are you feeling this way?

And I actually think the reason you’re feeling this pressure is because if we look over here in the bottom left, your liquid term score, this orange one is a 0. 2, which means you can live for a little less than three months on your liquid asset. So if things happen, you just don’t have any buffer to fall back on.

Do you wonder maybe that’s the pain that you’re really feeling? And I just saw their eyes like widen. They’re like, Oh, [00:26:00] I’d never thought about it like that before. Like, so they had this pain and they had a hard time saying it like, They’re trying their best to define the pain as like, I have too much debt because, you know, I’m a Dave Ramsey guy and Dave Ramsey says, if you have debt, it’s bad.

That’s probably why I feel this way. But now I have this new framing of like, here’s my liquid term score. I could put a word or a, or a phrase or articulate why I’m feeling the way that I am. And it’s because I don’t have enough liquidity. So I share those two examples as like, I think people, when it comes to this problem piece, like articulating their problem is so important.

And as a professional, rather than say like, do you have a strategy to pay down your debt, which feels kind of like bait and switchy and rather say like, Hey, here’s your situation. This might explain why you are the way that you are or why you feel the way that you do. What do you think about that? And that’s where I think we get a lot of buy in from people because now Jim or Jake or Amy can sit down and say, Oh.

That’s why I feel this way. And then I think, I think, and then we have an opening to say like, we have a service to help you do that, [00:27:00] right? Like I can help you build your liquidity because I know that that’s actually the problem. Where I think people are like, I think I have an acute problem, but when you ask them about it, it’s not that acute because I don’t think that they’re really bought into it.

So.

Abby Morton: No, I love that. I, I think you’re alluding to a point actually I was wanting to bring up and I think is so valid that I think the elements like framework and methodology helps to give people those words. It helps them to see their picture, their financial picture, to like visually see it in these boxes in ways that they haven’t before.

And we’ve asked for feedback from people Just like, how was your coaching session? How did the framework matter? You know, how, like, just give us general feedback as to their thoughts on this.

Jordan Haines: I’m not the only one. Everyone, you heard it. I’m not the only one.

Abby Morton: We’re going to cut that out.

Jordan Haines: Listen, if you hear the pounding for everyone listening, I’m going to, I’m keeping this in Abby and there’s nothing you can do about it. Everyone listening. Can you hear that? Like pounding sounds like someone’s patting on a desk. My daughter has dot [00:28:00] markers and she’s behind my, she’s got these big old headphones on and she won’t listen to me and she’s just go, go, go, go, go. She’s going to town on a paper and Abby decided to let her, um, ringtone or timer.

Abby Morton: That is my pick up my children at

Jordan Haines: Oh, geez. Oh, okay. I don’t feel

Abby Morton: Oh, we got 10 minutes, Jordan. I got

Jordan Haines: Okay. Keep going. Sorry.

Abby Morton: We are parents of young children,

Jordan Haines: is like the, uh, parent advice podcast, uh, where our, our kids are all in the room with us and we just get distracted all the time.

Abby Morton: Okay. So we’re dealing with Annie’s dot markers and uh, moving forward with the episode. Um, but no, it’s been surprising to us to see, from the mouths of the jakes of the world, from the consumers that are, that are watching us, In our coaching program, how much the framework that elements provides has been really meaningful for them and how eyeopening it’s been.

And that’s exactly what you were alluding to in your example, Jordan is they didn’t know why they were so stressed. And [00:29:00] they, we run around in this rat race, trying to figure it out, trying to pay off your mortgage as fast as you can, trying to do anything you can to make yourself feel better. And I just think the elements framework provides you a good overview, a good outlook to just.

See where you’re at and like be able to really jump into the areas that do matter the most and I just I’ve been a little surprised because I’ve heard from sales calls and after sales calls that people say like it’s too much It’s overwhelming people aren’t gonna get it, right? We hear that often you hear the opposite side of advisors saying it’s changed my clients I’ve always had concerns for this particular person and they never gotten it and then I showed them total term and they were just They’re so happy and that solved all my problem.

I hear both sides of the story. And so It’s hard to like, no, like, is the framework meaningful? Does it do anything? And so from hearing it ourselves from real people going through our coaching program and saying that this framework has really helped them, [00:30:00] I just, I think there’s something there. Like, I think that being able to introduce it and have them understand where they’re at is meaningful.

And it’s something that’s not out there today. And so you’re able to differentiate yourself, um, using the framework. Like, I really do think that.

Jordan Haines: Yeah. So if I were to tie a nice pretty bow on this, um, I think for those of you listening to this, that, I mean, we use this fancy phrase, like doing conversations at scale. And I think that that manifests itself in the form of maybe even prospecting for traditional type clients, or if you’re like a 401k admin or you, you manage a large group of people, um, rather than think about the value being the financial plan or being the advice or being the guidance that you give after they’ve given you information.

Is there a place somewhere in between getting that information and having that advice or direction type conversation where we can actually provide a lot of value? And maybe that thing is what I’ve termed as financial orientation. But I think what you’re saying, Abby is more just helping them [00:31:00] understand how it all fits, what their pain actually is, like just helping them see it for the first time.

Cause I think for a lot of people, We discounted as advisors because we get it. Like we understand the system. I know the inner workings of the financial system and my personal finances well enough to know like, Hey, this makes complete sense to me. But for a lot of people, even the smart ones, like they’re just floating around and they can’t put words to the pain that they’re feeling.

They they’re misdiagnosing themselves. And so we, as professionals can come in and correctly diagnose them and help them understand that diagnosis in a way where they see. Hey, you’re providing a lot of value to me.

Abby Morton: Yeah, I think too, like, all the tools that are out there right now is, you see just things in a silo. And I remember this happened to us at Dennis Advisors. We would do the monthly reporting. We would look at everything individually, each element, every month. And once we decided, like, oh wait, all of these relate to each other and they affect each other and it’s nice to, like, Not look in a silo all the time, but be able to see the bigger picture all in one place.

Like there is power in [00:32:00] that. Right. And so I think it just, it brings more clarity. Like even if someone is doing really well with their money, like seeing it all in one place and knowing the context of how it all relates, I think is important. And I don’t think it’s too much. I think a little education goes a long way.

Jordan Haines: Well, I mean, frankly, the at scale part of this, I think that’s a much more scalable than like unique advice for every single individual person, which isn’t bad, right? Like I don’t want to, I don’t want to dissuade advisors from doing that. But when you want to have these financial conversations at scale, just orienting and educating and helping them understand their situation.

It’s sometimes easier and quicker to get to than that second step of like, Hey, here’s the prescriptive advice I want to give you. So, um, if I were to wrap us up here, cause I know you gotta go pick up your kids as we all are well aware. Um, those of you listening to this, if you’re working with a high volume of people, you’re doing these financial conversations, whether it’s prospecting, whether it’s 401k admin, whatever it is that you’re doing.

We want to get your feedback. Um, Abby and I are exploring a lot of these and a lot of this was just an [00:33:00] exploratory conversation. Um, I was hearing things for the first time. Abby was hearing things for the first time. So give us a chance to hear things for the first time from you all. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out, reach out to us.

Abby and I are both on LinkedIn. I don’t know if you play the Twitter game, but I can’t, I’ve tried forever. Are you on there? Can people reach out to you there? Okay, great. So don’t reach out to us on Twitter. I’m sure I have a profile and I don’t know how to log in. Let us know. Or X or whatever it’s called, uh, find us on LinkedIn or, um, send an email.

I think it’s podcast at get elements. com. It’s a good play. Yeah. Go there. And then, um, Abby, let’s talk some more. Maybe we’ll air. I think we need to air some of those episodes that you and Risa recording. So people kind of get an insight for what we’re doing. And then

Abby Morton: We’d love to see

Jordan Haines: otherwise I hope everyone has a swell week.

Abby Morton: Okay. Thanks everyone. Catch you next time.