When prospective clients remain unsure, they hesitate. Their hesitancy indicates they are uncertain about your services, or you as a financial expert, or your brand. And until you can help them overcome their uncertainty, you’ll be unable to move them forward.
On this Elementality, Abby and Jake Larsen, VP of Sales at Elements, discuss the art of selling and how understanding the factors people consider before making a buying decision can help advisors close more business. How can you persuade a prospect to realize your services will improve their life? How do you increase their trust in your expertise? And how do you better communicate your vision? Discover why certainty becomes the catalyst that turns a prospective client’s hesitancy into action.
Podcast Transcript
Jake Larsen:
If you truly believe that what you’re offering them is going to bring some sort of value, just make sure they get to that point.
Abby Morton:
Yeah.
Jake Larsen:
So if it, let’s use a scorecard example with elements, right? If I’m trying to get people to, or prospects to fill out a scorecard, right? And I just post it on social media and say, Hey, if you want a free assessment, right? Or if you wanna get a financial check-in for free, fill this out. How many people are like, oh, yeah, I’ve just been dying for a financial checkup. Like I can’t go to work today without that. They’re like, no. Right? So what do you have to do so that they can see or feel a need or desire, a want to fill out that scorecard, right? A great, an easy example might be, and you see this all the time, like a testimonial, something, hey, I… They tell their story. I was, I didn’t know where my money was. I didn’t know where, if I was making the right decisions. So I filled out the this scorecard, and in five minutes, Abby made me feel so much better, right? Now they’re like, oh man, I want that.
Jordan Haines:
Welcome to Elementality. Each episode we will explore the challenges and the opportunities faced by financial advisors and how advisors can use elements to grow their business and serve their clients better. We hope you enjoy this episode.
Abby Morton:
Welcome to the Elementality Podcast, everyone. I’m your host today, Abby Morton here with our VP of Sales, Jake Larsen. Hey, Jake.
Jake Larsen:
Hey Abby. Thanks for having me.
Abby Morton:
Yeah, I’m so excited to have you back on the show. You were on with Reese, quite a while ago, actually. So bringing you back on. I’ve learned several things from you over the last couple months and I thought our listeners would love to have, to, would love to hear what you have to say today. And so I was excited to have you back on as a guest.
Jake Larsen:
Happy to be here.
Abby Morton:
Thank you so much. So we’ve been talking to Jake actually a lot lately about some sales training and sales tactics. Now, I know the word sales in the financial planning world is like hush hush. We’re not supposed to say that word sales, I know it’s called business development, but for the sake of today, can we all just agree to be friends? And we’re just gonna say the word sales, ’cause we all know we do it.
Jake Larsen:
Yes. Nothing to be afraid of.
Abby Morton:
We all understand that as much as us financial planners don’t want to be salesmen in some capacity, we have to be salesmen to get clients at the end of the day, right?
Jake Larsen:
Yeah.
Abby Morton:
So Jake, as his VP of sales, has been helping us with our growth initiative as a firm and helping advisors wanting to grow their firms, helping us try to train advisors on how can they grow their practices, right? How can we be better salesmen? How can we train people to be better? And we’ve learned quite a few things that we wanted to help advisors. And we thought, why not bring this to the podcast? Because this is really great knowledge to help everyone know. So the first, kind of lesson that Jake taught us, I was really interested in knowing more about is this idea of pain, right? And when people have a pain that they are going to almost do anything to solve this pain. So can you help us understand what I mean, when people have pain, they’re gonna do anything they can to solve it, Jake? What do I mean by that?
Jake Larsen:
Yeah. Well, I think that your first comments and concerns about using the word sales instead of business development actually correlates really well with what you’re talking about. Sales gets a bad rap because oftentimes people pin sales with pushing products or pushing something onto someone that doesn’t actually need it.
Abby Morton:
Okay. Yeah, I like that.
Jake Larsen:
Right. It’s like a selfish thing. But really the best salespeople and the best sales organizations and the best products that someone will be selling is actually solving problems for people. So maybe a better word would be problem solving, right? ‘Cause if you can actually solve someone’s pain, then why wouldn’t you want to be passionate and excited to talk about that thing, and in a sense kind of convince them, right? Sell them on that idea of, hey, you actually need this ’cause you have this pain or this problem, I’ve seen other people in a similar place as you that have struggled with that, and I know how to solve that for you. Right? That’s what sales is, that’s what business is, is it’s solving problems for people.
Abby Morton:
Well, and I would argue that’s what we as financial planners are doing every day, is we see this pain, financial pain that people have in their lives, and we know how to solve that. We know how to help with those behavioral issues that they may have. We know how to invest their money in a way that makes it last. So like that’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re being problem solvers for them. I like that.
Jake Larsen:
Yeah. Problem solvers. And that’s what selling is. It’s solving problems for people that don’t know how to solve that, or you have a better solution than what they’re currently doing. And so maybe that’s a good place to start with that idea of pain that individuals might feel that an advisor can help them with, that’s what selling actually is.
Abby Morton:
I like that. That’s a really great way to start. So we often, as advisors, we market all the time, right? And you have people that lurk and maybe sit in your email database or follow you on social media forever and ever, and they never take action, right? They just never do anything. But then you have those people who just maybe don’t even know anything about you and call you on the phone, and the next day are sitting down in a meeting with you and instantly are signing up to buy your services of whatever they may be. Right? Why, what would be maybe the big distinction between those two types of clients and how do we understand the difference between them as advisors and how to market to them and reach them?
Jake Larsen:
Well one thing that I’ve learned having been at Elements for a while now and spoken to a lot of financial advisors about growth and about how they’re helping people, is one of the factors that seems to drive action from prospective clients to actually sign up for advisors is life events. Right? There’s some sort of life event that happens and that’s when they come in your door. And that’s when they’re willing to sign up for whatever services a financial advisor is using, whether it’s a, an inheritance that they get or a, I’ve talked to a lot of people that specialize in like divorce or something, but there’s some sort of life event that happens and the reason why that is, is because that is a moment when pain sets in, right?
Jake Larsen:
When there’s something that happens in their life that there’s uncertainty or there’s unknowns or there’s levels of complication that come and all of a sudden that pain comes to the surface and they’re forced to take action on it, right? Now, most financial professionals would say like, hey, there were things that you should have been doing prior to this that would have alleviated all this stress or pain that you’re now feeling. But that pain wasn’t at the surface for them at that moment, right? And so they didn’t take any action until that pain came to the surface. So from a business development standpoint, as a financial advisor, helping people recognize that that pain exists, it’s just hidden underneath comfortable, you know, they’re comfortable in their life or there’s, everything’s good and dandy, right? Like that prevents people from taking action ’cause they’re, that pain isn’t prevalent. It’s not… Yeah.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. Well, I think you, we’ve talked about this analogy of when the engine light on your car goes out, goes on, right? If my car’s still driving, if I’m still able to get from point A to point B, I’m not very incentivized to do something. That actually happened to me this winter. My engine light went on and I wasn’t incentivized to do anything ’cause I was still able to drive my car, and it would go off and it would go on the next day, it would go off and go on, and for several weeks it did this. And all of a sudden now, my engine light’s not on anymore, like it hasn’t come back on, but I never took my car in to do anything. Right? But if all of a sudden my car stops working, you know, I’m gonna get it to the mechanic as fast as I can.
Abby Morton:
Right? I think in a sense that can be related to financial pain, right? Like we all have these financial pains in our life and some of them are more motivating to do something than other ones. And I think sometimes it’s all about, how can we as advisors be in the right place at the right time when that pain is manifest, right? Is that what you’ve noticed as well of also just needing to be there so that they know when that pain manifests, because at some point it will in their financial life that they know who to turn to?
Jake Larsen:
Yeah, I mean, and it’s not just in financial advice, it’s in, it’s, this is business in general, right? Like at Elements we’re trying to sell a software to financial advisors that may or may not have pain at that moment that we can solve. So it’s, the principle exists across any purchasing behavior that exists. As soon as your car can’t get you to work anymore, now it’s a really big priority, right? You drop everything to get your car fixed. Whereas before the engine light is like, ah, I still gotta take my kid to soccer practice. I still gotta get whatever task done for the day. Like I’ll get to that when I can get to it. It’s not a priority, ’cause the pain is just a little red light that’s flashing in the corner that, but you can still go about your day. But as soon as your car can’t go anymore, that jumps to the top of your to-do list.
Abby Morton:
Yeah.
Jake Larsen:
And so, I think that that’s just a principle of understanding how people make decisions, when it comes to selling and helping people take action earlier before the light comes on. Now it’s a matter of education. It’s about challenging what people think. So for, if we were to go on that off of that warning light example, if I’m trying to sell you services to get your car taken care of, right? I could just say, hey, come talk to me once your car breaks. Right? I could just leave it at that.
Abby Morton:
Right.
Jake Larsen:
If I’m actually a mechanic that has your best interest in mind, and I know what’s gonna happen when that car breaks and the impact that that’s gonna have on your life, am I being a pushy salesperson or being too aggressive by saying, “Hey, Abby, I understand that you can still get to point A and point B. However, what I’ve seen as the expert here is people that do that eventually it’s gonna break, and then you’re gonna wake up the next morning and you’re not gonna be able to get your kids to school and you’re not gonna be able to get to work and you’re not gonna be able to do those things. Let’s, instead of waiting for that to happen, bring it in today. Let’s take action now, resolve that so that you don’t have to face the greater pain.” Right? So, I think, I don’t know necessarily where you wanna go with this whole thing, but as you think about selling or business development or problem solving, one of the responsibilities that any financial advisor has or any person that offers a service to another individual is being the expert, knowing what’s actually gonna help you.
Abby Morton:
Yeah.
Jake Larsen:
And it’s not in my best interest or your best interest to sit back and wait for your car to not work anymore and just say like, “Hey, come talk to me when you’re ready.” Right? If I know that this is important, I should be persuasive and I should have data and I should have things that educate Abby to make the best decision for her and her family and say things like, “Hey Abby, let’s not wait. Let’s get in and let’s fix this problem before it becomes a greater problem.”
Abby Morton:
Definitely. Well, I like what you said. I think the best word to use there is like education, right? I think lots of times, even in finances, it can be really complex and people don’t know what they don’t know. And so when people are educated on what they don’t know, then they have this realization of, like I may be having more pain, or there’s probably things I’m doing that are wrong, and how can I fix those pains? Well, I don’t know, but Abby, the CFP, she knows, and maybe I can go and get help from Abby because she can help me. We have often talked about, dentist advisors of like, oh, it’d be nice to get to these dentists when they’re right out of school because we can help them so much more in their early 30s to not even make the bad decisions that we know people are gonna find them and they’re going to make, because when they come to us in their 50s and they have all these products that people sold to them because they just wanted to make a commission off of them, then it’s so much harder to unwind them and they’re so much farther away from where they should be.
Abby Morton:
Right? So I feel we often use that as well as an education point, like let us help you today so that you don’t even make all those wrong choices along the way. So then that’s a good point of helping your clients that you’re marketing to or your prospects know that this is just an… Or educating them so that they know what they don’t know and how you can help them along the way. I think that’s really well said. So there’s this other concept that you’ve taught us recently about the certainty scale, and that people will be more apt to be comfortable to want to work with you if they’re certain that you’re going to be able to solve that pain that they have. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that means, and maybe even where it comes from, because I know you didn’t come up with it. So where does this even come from?
Jake Larsen:
It actually comes from a book called The Way of the Wolf, one of my favorite, there’s no sales book or business development book has all the answers, but you can, you just kind of, you know, everything can have a little bit of value. And this is just a very easy way to think through visually and structurally how buying decisions are made. So it comes from the book The Way of the Wolf. And I think it’s a great segue actually kind of talking about pain, because one of the things that I’ve noticed with financial advisors, and from a business standpoint, I’m not gonna say certain with a lot of certainty like I think that this is what’s best for every financial advisor, but it’s just something you need to think about. Because oftentimes the decision that we ask people to make is from 0-60 in three seconds.
Jake Larsen:
Right? It’s like, okay, you wanna meet with me, or you wanna work with me? Well, you gotta have a half a million dollars or a million dollars to invest. Like it’s a really big ask to get that commitment, which when there’s a very big ask like that, the level of certainty that someone has to have in the results they’re gonna get back from that investment has to be really, really high. Right? So the idea of the certainty scale is from, if you were to put, on just a scale from 1-10, how certain are people in three things? The three things are how certain are they in your company in general, right? Do they gotta have confidence in the brand. How certain are they in you as the salesperson or as the person with the offering?
Jake Larsen:
And then the third thing is how certain are they in the value, the value they’re gonna get directly from the service or the product. So each of those are on their own scales and the buyer, they are gonna be somewhere on that scale for in each of those categories. Right? And the closer that they are to 10, they’re more certain in the company, in the person and in the product, the more certain that they are, the higher the likelihood that they are going to buy. If they are not certain in any of those three categories, they’re less likely to make a purchasing decision. So if I have a lot of confidence in Abby as the person that’s bringing this offering to me, I have a lot of confidence in the actual value that I’m gonna get from what she’s promising me, but I look at reviews online in the company, like I don’t have a lot of confidence in the company, that could hold me back. Right?
Jake Larsen:
If I have a lot of confidence in the brand, if I have a lot of confidence in the product, but Abby comes across to me as, you know, not well educated, or she’s not an expert, then I might have some hesitancy to buy. And then I also might love what Abby does. I might really love the company, but I don’t see a lot of value in what they offer, I’m also going to have a hard time making a decision to buy. So as people make purchasing decisions, they have to move closer and closer to a 10 in each of those categories to feel confident that they’re ready to take action and invest either their time or resources or money into something.
Abby Morton:
Yeah.
Jake Larsen:
So that’s the idea of the certainty scale is recognizing what those three categories are, and then as a company or as an individual trying to improve how people perceive the value and the confidence that they have in each of those three things. So when it comes to, what I was saying before as far as individual, financial advisors, it’s either, you know, a half a million or a million at a minimum, you’re asking a lot from certain individuals. There might be people that, you know, half a million dollars, a million dollars is like a drop in the bucket. So it’s, yeah, you know, I can be at a 6 and I’ll move forward, but for some people that’s a massive decision. So they have to be even closer and closer to a 10. So the progress that someone makes on those scales, may have to be closer to a 10 if the ask that you’re requiring of them is higher, if it’s a more simple ask, then it’s easier for people to make a decision being lower on that certainty scale.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. ‘Cause you’re requiring less of them, it’s a lower ask, it doesn’t take as much, which is why they don’t have to be as certain, right? If you’re not asking as much of them. We talk about this and the AUM example is a really great example, but maybe another example that could just as equally apply is, and traditionally financial planning has always been done to get a prospect to become a client, is they come in and sit down and meet with you in your office. Right? It’s been this face-to-face interaction, and for some people that have had that really large financial pain, this big life event that they’ve had, that hasn’t been a hard ask of them. But how do you get those people who don’t have that big life event to come and sit down in your office?
Abby Morton:
It’s probably gonna be harder to get them. So what we’ve been trying and testing out with Elements is how can you just send them maybe an invite to the app? How do you maybe just educate them on the different ways of the scorecard and how you can give them a free financial assessment? Because that ask is much lower on that certainty scale, right? It’s a lower on the bar of what we’re requiring them to do. It’s a way that they can try out financial planning before they even have to buy it, right? It’s this lower commitment, right? We’re not asking for all of this data and all this information about them before they even know if they wanna work with us. It’s another way for us to bring down that certainty scale from the higher side down to the lower side, for them to be able to even know if they wanna work with us. So I think that’s another way that we’ve seen that this has been working as well, is just moving that decision and that commitment that they have to make down a little bit lower on the scale.
Jake Larsen:
Yeah. That’s why I this visual or this principle so much with the certainty scale because there’s no, there’s not necessarily a right or wrong answer, but it helps you find things to try, areas that you can progress as an organization. Because like you said, you can the, the AUM or the ask for, a lot of half a million dollars or a million dollars is very high on that certainty scale. But another way to just start to be introduced to people and start to build confidence is okay, I need people to have a lot of confidence for the first offering, but what if there was a way for me to lower the initial ask and so that that level of certainty doesn’t have to be as high.
Abby Morton:
Exactly.
Jake Larsen:
Right?
Abby Morton:
Yep.
Jake Larsen:
Or…
Abby Morton:
Well said.
Jake Larsen:
Or the level of certainty, if my offering’s gonna be really large, then I have to do a lot of work with those individuals, which is why the traditional, I’ll call it a sales cycle. I don’t know what an advisor’s gonna say.
Abby Morton:
Business development cycle. [laughter]
Jake Larsen:
Business development cycle, right? That duration that it takes to win business from somebody has to be so long is because it takes a lot of time and effort to get people to have a lot of confidence in the individual, in the company, and in the actual value that you’re gonna bring them, they have to see it because they gotta get really close to a 10 to make that really big decision. So there’s so much that you can do kind of playing with how big of an ask versus how small of an ask and the level of confidence that they have to feel in order to get them to engage.
Abby Morton:
Totally. I love this. I think this ties into the last point I wanted to hit on before we end, is when we ask a prospect to do something and they don’t take action, I think we as human beings, and this is just human nature. When you ask your child to clean up that room and they don’t do something, you feel frustrated and you’re, oh, they didn’t do anything and you’re mad. Right? It’s just human nature when you ask someone and they don’t follow through that you’re a little upset. So the idea of I’m asking my prospect to fill out this information or to respond to this email or to attend this webinar, and they don’t do anything, you know, maybe it’s fill out this form, I feel upset and frustrated, and they don’t do anything. They don’t take action. So I just move on to the next person. Instead, we can ask, why didn’t they take action? Or what was the good question you’ve taught us to ask instead of like, what should make them want to take action?
Jake Larsen:
Yeah. I mean, I think my team probably gets tired of me talking about this one word, but I think it’s like one of the most powerful words in business and in sales and anything is the word why, right? As soon as somebody has a legitimate reason, there’s enough pain, and if you think about it on that scale, the pain is great enough that the ask is worth it. Right? Now they’re going to take some level of action. So people that aren’t taking action, it’s not that they don’t, you know, aren’t willing to listen to you or something that. They just are trying to get to work and the warning light’s still on in their car. But they can still get to work. And they’re like, eh, all right, Abby, when I have a free minute, maybe I’ll sit down and talk to you.
Jake Larsen:
Most people don’t feel like they have free minutes to just fill with things that aren’t prevalent, aren’t at the top of their list. So it just continues to sit there. Right? So if you have people that aren’t taking action, I just think a great exercise to do is, okay, think about the level of certainty. What am I asking them to do? And then what’s the value that they’re gonna get out of it? And do they actually understand what that value is? If they don’t know what it is, then they can’t kind of put the… If I don’t know what the benefit of the value proposition is, I can’t move on that certainty scale. Right? I don’t actually know tangibly like what am I gonna get for this effort or time that I have to put in.
Abby Morton:
Like why would I want to go to that webinar? Or why would I want to fill out that link? You know, asking that from the client’s perspective, they’ve asked me to fill out this form, why would I as the client, like have I as the advisor explained that well enough to them that they understand what they’re gonna get out of it, right?
Jake Larsen:
Exactly. Yep.
Abby Morton:
Have I motivated them to understand the benefit that they’re going to derive from completing that action.
Jake Larsen:
And then if I’m not getting those people to take action, I don’t just look at the tool or look at the individual and say like, well, this is crap, right? Like this isn’t actually gonna work. Right? I have to look and say, okay, what do I need to change in my messaging or how I’m delivering this so that it… If you truly believe that what you’re offering them is going to bring some sort of value, just make sure they get to that point.
Abby Morton:
Yeah.
Jake Larsen:
So if it, let’s use a scorecard example with Elements, right? If I’m trying to get people to, or prospects to fill out a scorecard, right? And I just post it on social media and say, “Hey, if you want a free assessment, or if you wanna get a financial check-in for free, fill this out.”
Abby Morton:
Right.
Jake Larsen:
How many people are like, oh yeah, I’ve just been dying for a financial checkup, [laughter] like I can’t go to work today without that. They’re like, no. Right? So what do you have to do so that they can see or feel a need or desire, a want to fill out that scorecard? Right? A great, an easy example might be, and you see this all the time, like a testimonial, something like, hey, I, they tell their story. I was, I didn’t know where my money was, I didn’t know where, if I was making the right decisions. So I filled out this scorecard and in five minutes, Abby made me feel so much better, right? Now they’re like, oh man, I want that. I wanna feel that, or I wanna have that experience. So now there’s a, it’s not a big ask and the benefit is very simple.
Jake Larsen:
So as long as I get to like a 2 or a 3 on that certainty scale, I will take that level of action. Right? So it’s just a great, I just love the framework because it helps you put into an understandable way, like how are people making these decisions and is that being, or what can I change as the financial advisor, whoever might be bringing this, what can I change so that people can feel and taste this benefit that I’m selling? Right? I know we hate the word selling, right? But this problem that I’m trying to solve for people, if I really believe that people have that problem and I have the solution, I should be passionate about that. I should be like, Abby, you need this.
Abby Morton:
Yes.
Jake Larsen:
Right?
Abby Morton:
Exactly.
Jake Larsen:
I’m not doing this because I’m gonna get a commission, if’s what you’re doing then it’s really hard to sell value. Right? You can’t make it about solving problems for them. But if you’re solving, Abby, you need this, if you, like the dentist you’re talking about, if you come out of dental school with this debt or with what, like if you don’t do this today, I’ve seen hundreds of dentists get into this rat’s nest of work. If we just start today and I’m lowering the cost of this, or I’m doing something to make it easier for you to engage, this is the benefit, right? You can sell that all day with passion. It doesn’t come across as salesy ’cause you’re looking out for that client or prospect’s best interest. So I just love how that scale brings it to a level that you can actually find areas to change and improve so that you can get more people to engage.
Abby Morton:
I love it. I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Any final remarks you wanna leave our listeners with?
Jake Larsen:
Sales is not bad. Sales is good. Unless you’re just looking out for your own best interest, then I will agree that that is bad. But any individual or company that’s trying to do that isn’t gonna survive anyway. So think of sales. It is about problem solving. And if you are really trying to solve people and you believe that you can solve those problems, you’re selling people, right? You’re selling them a solution that’s going to make their lives or their business or something better for them. And be passionate about that. It’s okay to be salesy, right? And I’m using air quotes for those that can’t see us, but be excited, be passionate about educating and making sure people understand that that warning light on their car is going to cause a bigger problem. Let’s get on top of that now so that we don’t have to deal with that later. So yeah, sales, business development, it’s a good thing ’cause you have good things to offer people, sometimes they just don’t know it ’cause they’re just in the world of status quo.
Abby Morton:
I love it.
Jake Larsen:
And they need someone to teach them and educate them to help their lives be better.
Abby Morton:
Yes. And that’s what we’re doing. Each one of our listeners, we know that you’re here to change lives. You’re not here to push products. And so let’s do that. Thank you so much, Jake. We’ve learned so much from you. I hope we all can save this episode and listen to it time and time again. I know, I definitely will. So thanks again.
Jake Larsen:
Yep. Happy to do it.
Abby Morton:
Next time on Elementality.
Ryan Isaac:
I think it’s a myth in personal finance that getting the budget under control is the main way to save your financial self. I think that’s the pressure we all feel, like oh, if I just give this budget in control, then everything will be okay. But the truth is the budget is like a crash diet a lot of times. You can tell yourself you’re never gonna eat sugar again for the rest of your life, [laughter] and you might be able to swing it for a month.
Reese Harper:
Many, and many do.
Ryan Isaac:
And many do, but you’re gonna eat sugar later in your life. Okay? It’s just not, like micromanaging your family’s budget to death is not a sustainable practice. It’s just not. You do need to track it. You do need to know what it is, and you do need to have some accountability and limits to it.
Abby Morton:
To find out more about Elements, go to getelements.com/demo. Elementality’s executive producers are Reese Harper and Carl Richards. Elementality is produced by Tad Henderson and directed by Abby Morton. Have a good one.