“Everyone needs a discussion partner and my role is to help clients as their partner. Elements helps me get those discussions started as clients begin to visualize why their financial picture isn’t in line with their values.”
On this Elementality, Abby welcomes Angela Johnson of Worthen Financial Advisors. Angela explains how she utilizes Elements throughout onboarding and planning. Incorporating Elements as an assessment and monitoring tool is integral to her process that begins with a thorough analysis of each client’s financial status. Angela’s commitment to understanding each individual’s unique personal and financial priorities is reinforced throughout by Elements—which also helps her ensure her planning approach is both tailored and holistic.
Podcast Transcript
Angela Johnson:
We always start with the values exercise, then from there, we create a statement of financial purpose, then we go through the Elements and just talk through what’s happening, look at their assets and expenses, assets and debts, and then start to create some goals based on what they’re saying. From that and then next steps. I’m not telling them what they should or should not do. They’re telling me what’s important to them, and then they’re realizing it as they’re saying it, that they’re not spending their money in alignment with their values.
Jordan Haines:
Welcome to Elementality. Each episode, we will explore the challenges and the opportunities faced by financial advisors, and how advisors can use Elements to grow their business and serve their clients better. We hope you enjoy this episode.
Abby Morton:
Welcome to Elementality, everyone. I’m your host today, Abby Morton, here with Angela Johnson from Houston. Angela started a firm called Worthen Financial Advisors. Welcome to the show, Angela. We’re so excited to have you.
Angela Johnson:
Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. We’re so excited to have a female on the podcast today. Unfortunately us females are hard to find in the financial planning industry.
Angela Johnson:
That’s frightening to me.
Abby Morton:
Yes. Yes. When Angela said she’d be willing to be a guest on the podcast, I jumped at the opportunity. So again, thank you so much. Why don’t we start with having our listeners know a little bit more about you. Tell us how you got started in the industry and then tell us a little bit about your firm.
Angela Johnson:
Okay. So I started as a captive insurance agent. Don’t delete the real webinar right now. But from ’05 to ’21, I was a captive agent. I was also a registered rep that whole time. And as I built out the insurance practice or agency, I always did rollovers or 529 plans for family or friends or clients who asked for it, but I did not have time to seek anything out. So I built the agency. What I to do is learn something, create processes, duplicate myself. So I did that with the help of my sister. She’s always worked with me, and so I had someone I could trust, which was very helpful. That allowed me to go… So I started doing more financial services and just fell in love with it. I started listening to… Stinking out podcasts, found Michael Kitces, so I could do it better and then started learning about the whole concept of a fiduciary and all this other stuff, which started me on the journey of becoming a CFP.
Angela Johnson:
I know for sure there were two CFPs in this captive business, but nationwide, there might’ve been three. But the whole time, I was just a round peg in a square hole. I did not wanna sell annuities, I did not want to push permanent life insurance. I think those are great products, but just for a very select number of people. Definitely not the right solution for everyone contrary…
Abby Morton:
And so did you feel like that the whole time you were there or more after learning about Kitces?
Angela Johnson:
No, the whole time. Not the person so much, but the principles, the basic principles of Dave Ramsey in baby steps. And this isn’t a Ramsey thing, but buy term and invest the difference, but you really need someone to help you invest the difference. You actually have to do it. So that’s always the… I’m always a term life person.
Angela Johnson:
So I became a CFP. The great thing about that model was that I had built my agency and it was very large. And so having that revenue allowed me to help anyone with their rollover. It could be $5000. It didn’t matter to me. I loved doing it. I loved helping them and I already had income. So I was just able to go off and do what I liked to do, still manage the agency overall, but that just opened doors and opened my eyes, and then I started listening. I think maybe Michael Kitces interviewed Mindy Diamond possibly one day. And then I was like, “I should leave. I should start my own thing.” Or what would that look like.
Angela Johnson:
So the other thing I started doing… I don’t know if this is too detailed for this podcast, but I’m in the Houston area. I’m actually in Friendswood, which is a suburb of Houston, south of Houston. So our whole area is very volatile weather-wise, so people are always shopping for insurance and rates are always changing. And especially once I went through the CFP program, I just really did not feel comfortable only having one insurance solution for people. How is that the right thing? So it changed my thinking in a lot of ways, or expanded it, I should say. So I, at the age of 50, resigned and chose to start over.
Abby Morton:
Wow. Amazing. So that was how many years ago then? How long have you been doing your own thing?
Angela Johnson:
Two.
Abby Morton:
Oh, just two? Okay. Two years into doing your own thing.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah.
Abby Morton:
So tell us how’s it been going these two years?
Angela Johnson:
It has been going really well. I spent the first really year to year and a half moving my clients over for just not the insurance, but the financial people. So that was a process of figuring out, just selecting everything from the bottom up. I did go with Buckingham as a temp. So that was very helpful, but I still had almost every single decision to make. So I hear advisors on podcasts saying, “I got everybody moved in 2.5 months, and I had $500 billion in assets.” But once they were moved then I’m like, “How?” So it took me longer than that. But about 90… Okay, I didn’t ask. I didn’t invite everyone to move to my new firm.
Abby Morton:
Well, that’s exactly what I was gonna say too, is I’m sure there’s a difference in philosophy from where you were to what you wanted to create today. So how did you handle that?
Angela Johnson:
Yeah. My main thing has always been in our ideal client profile that the top thing is that people are kind, and so anyone that I was not excited about meeting with, I did not talk to again.
Abby Morton:
Yeah, why go there?
Angela Johnson:
Yeah. I didn’t have anybody terrible, but I just for one thing, if they weren’t responsive, I don’t need to babysit anybody, things like that. So they just needed to be… When I first created Worthen Financial Advisors, they just needed to be interested in their own financial success. Period. And be kind. That’s it.
Abby Morton:
I like that. Yeah, simple.
Angela Johnson:
That’s the barrier to entry. Yeah. You need to hear about this as much as I do.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. So tell me who those clients are today, what does that profile look like? Besides being kind and open to their financial journey, do you find yourself planning more for millennials or retirees? Where do you fit that person?
Angela Johnson:
So we do both or a wide range. I know that I’m going to niche down more than I already have because it’s pretty broad. Right now, what we target is busy professionals and busy retirees. So people who wanna delegate their investment management and then partner with us on financial planning, and that’s busy people. So that’s not super specific. Being in Friendswood, I’m halfway between NASA and the Houston Medical Center. So there are people who make very good money and they’re busy professionals, so that’s where we are now. As far as age demographics go, a little about my actual firm structure, when I was just making the move, someone reached out and said, “I need an internship. I’m getting a degree in financial planning,” or I think the degree is actually finance, but whatever, the specialty financial planning. “And I need hours because when I graduate I’ll take the CFP exam and be a CFP.” So that sounded awesome to me because I had to do tons of appointments with all of these clients I was hoping that would move with me and do all the paperwork.
Abby Morton:
Right. A lot of work.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah. So he is Anthony Hernandez, and my firm is 23 years old. And so we have a nice mix of… He’s interested and always keeps at the forefront the needs of whatever that… Gen Z, let’s say. And then I’m a Gen Xer, and then everywhere in-between people kind of have the same.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. I love it. I love it. That’s great.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, and Anthony is actually my cousin, so…
Abby Morton:
Oh, okay.
Angela Johnson:
My first cousin, so my cousin’s son. So I had no idea that’s what his degree was in. I thought it was MIS, that’s what he started out as. So it’s kind of a family thing over here.
Abby Morton:
Yeah, I love that. That’s so great. Keep it in the family. I love that. So talk to me a little bit about how you found Elements. What was the biggest solution you were trying to solve when you found Elements?
Angela Johnson:
So I reached out to Elements in probably mid-2021 before I left the captive deal. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row or figure out someplace to start. And the pricing was very different and I could not… It was not affordable. Then, let me look, I think we started with Elements, then Anthony mentioned it again in June of ’22, is when we signed on with Elements. And the pricing had changed. I think y’all were new. I was new. It was all evolving. So I was really excited to get started.
Abby Morton:
Talk to me about that decision process. You said you looked at it initially, it sounds like maybe pricing, but what ultimately in June of 2022 made you decide to try this new tech software?
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, I was realizing that MoneyGuidePro for everyone, a full financial plan was not needed or really scalable. That’s a ton of work with a bunch of question marks for placeholders that, things that people don’t know. So Elements fit that need of really… I like the term financial monitoring. So that’s what most people need even into their 50s. Actually I have a 65, or she might be closer to 70, who loves Elements. So it’s not an age thing to me, but as we brought all these people on, Anthony I think had listened to a podcast or talked to an advisor who was using it and brought it back on my radar. We had a demo and it all… It was the right time to… How do I wanna… Just as good service to provide our clients.
Abby Morton:
Yeah. Okay. And so is Elements your main source of financial planning software that you use today with your clients?
Angela Johnson:
It is, yeah. And it took a minute… I kind of feel sorry for Anthony because I was on board, I was all in, but I just could not visualize. Even though it’s such a visual app, I could not understand how it could take the place of a financial plan. But I…
Abby Morton:
At a high level you liked the concepts, okay?
Angela Johnson:
So it was very confusing to him because I really couldn’t even articulate what the problem was. So the turning point for me was, and what I would recommend to anyone looking at Elements or who might be in the same situation, is put your own information into Elements and see what it’s like. So I looked at 60 people in Elements and I still could not… I kept wanting to do both. I loved Elements, I wanted to use it ongoing, monthly, in insights, in quarterly meetings and bi-annual reviews and everything, but I also wanted a money guide plan. So once I put my own stuff in, then… I guess I’m hardheaded, but then I could understand, “Oh, I don’t even need a money guide financial plan yet. I’m not a pre-retiree. I need to focus on these Elements right now,” and that made it click for me. I don’t know. Do y’all talk to people who are not understanding how, where it fits in?
Abby Morton:
Yeah, that’s exactly… I am like, “Let’s dig in here,” because I love that you have that problem and maybe it sounds you’ve overcome it.
Angela Johnson:
Totally.
Abby Morton:
I think for you… Let’s get in deeper there, ’cause I think this is a very common problem. Talk to me about why… Was the need of, “I still need to do a MoneyGuidePro plan. I still need to do this full plan. Even though I like Elements, it’s visually appealing, seems like it’s great.” You even said you wanted to go that direction. Can you talk to us a little bit more about why you think you still needed that larger plan?
Angela Johnson:
Yeah. I think one thing that y’all have added that’s awesome is the financial independence tool. I couldn’t get how much people need to be investing per month, per year, to reach the goals that they’re setting with us. So that financial independence tool has been very helpful as well, because it tells them how much they need to grow their net worth annually, and we can talk through it. What was your question… Tell me…
[overlapping conversation]
Abby Morton:
Yeah, what was the key reason why you still felt you needed the MoneyGuidePro plan?
Angela Johnson:
Oh yeah. Yeah. It was that how much do people need to be saving and investing per month to reach their goals? I couldn’t think of that another way. I just couldn’t visualize it. But also the savings rate. “Okay, aim for 20%.” Do they even need to know that yet if they’re saving 2%? What if the number’s 30% and they’re only doing 2%. Does it even matter if I tell them to reach your goals you need to save $5000 always a month if they’re saving $100,000? That’s not necessary.
Abby Morton:
Exactly. Right. Like you said earlier, it’s the baby steps. It’s the little things that you need to tell them to do. So today, instead of saying you need 20%, how do you use it then with your clients today in real life? Give me an example of maybe how you view savings rate with a particular client.
Angela Johnson:
That’s a good question. So we do surge reviews. So spring and fall, we’ve just finished fall. And the recurring theme is food, way overspending on a food budget, or they just don’t understand where all their money’s going. And Anthony and I each actually discovered this about ourselves earlier this year, and we both started using Mint separately, not knowing the other one was, but how much we’re spending on food just because we’re here like everybody else at work, and we need to eat.
Angela Johnson:
And so what so many people said during fall reviews is, “I don’t know where my money’s going,” or, “I do know where it’s going. It’s going to DoorDash, or it’s going to me driving through or picking up food.” And, “I’m not good at budgeting. I’ve tried all this stuff. I can’t do it.” Then what I started saying is, “Okay, let’s focus on the savings rate. This is the most important thing, and whatever you have left, you can spend on DoorDash, but get your savings rate to this number.” And I always tell them, “Our goal is 20%.” And of course that’s different if they wanna retire earlier, they… Whatever different things. But in general, broad numbers, our goal is 20% savings rate, and… Okay, well, if they’re at 2%, then maybe we’ll try to get them to 10% before our next review. So we set that as a goal. Pay yourself…
Abby Morton:
How does that go? Is that overwhelming for… Honestly, going from 2% savings rate to 10%, that’s a big jump. How do you have that conversation with them and motivate them? ‘Cause I think it could be really challenging. How do you help them through that?
Angela Johnson:
Ooh, okay, I love that. So when you’re looking at their total term or their qualified term and it’s three months and they’re 50, that’s a problem that they can clearly see.
Abby Morton:
And is it easy for them to be, “Oh”? Do they get it, you feel like?
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, I feel like they get it. So we recommend some budgeting apps and give them suggestions, offer to help them set it up, which no one’s taken us up on ’cause they’re all very easy to use. And then I also send them the budgeting numbers, “Okay, 10-15% of your income on food. Let’s look at what you’re spending. Oh, you’re spending… ” Because even in that meeting, even if they’re not using a budgeting app, they can go into their credit card or they can go into their bank account right then and see what that is telling them, and it’s 20-30%. One person discovered that they were spending $1100 a month on energy drink and a snack a couple of times a day at a gas station.
Abby Morton:
Oh, my gosh.
Angela Johnson:
And she [0:20:44.4] ____. She needed a new car, had no extra money, and I’m like, “Well, there you go.” And the other thing that I always like to tell people is, “This is not a judgment. If you tell me that your goal is to eat… ” This sounds a judgement. Depending on who I’m talking to, [0:21:07.8] ____. But if you tell me that your goal is to eat unhealthy food as many times a day as you can, not save for retirement, but you just wanna eat food, then let’s make that your goal and you’re doing great. You’re not telling me that, so help me help you.
Abby Morton:
And so really getting into the nitty-gritty, understanding where their money is going, I think even just that realization, I’m assuming, helps them to feel like, “Okay, I can get from that 2% to that 10%.”
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, it’s so simple. And it’s not a surprise. Except for that one person that I mentioned. Even she knew that she was over-spending, but she didn’t know to what extent. So it’s not really a surprise to people that they’re not saving enough, they just don’t know where the money’s gonna come from. We met with a couple who was spending over $2500 a month on DoorDash, which I… Busy family. We cater to busy professionals.
Abby Morton:
Yeah, yeah. They wanna delegate. Delegate DoorDash to bring them the food.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, exactly. I love it. I get it. But, unfortunately, we have to… All of us have to pick where our money goes.
Abby Morton:
How do you bring them back to helping them realize what ultimately is more important to them? How do you help them realize that and make those changes? ‘Cause like you said, they’re busy professionals. DoorDash helps them get it all done in a day. Do you have tactics and things that you help them to figure that out with?
Angela Johnson:
We always start with the values exercise. Then from there, we create a statement of financial purpose, then we go through the Elements and just talk through what’s happening, look at their assets and expenses, assets and debts, and then start to create some goals based on what they’re saying from that, and then next steps. And so they’re… I’m not telling them what they should or should not do. They’re telling me what’s important to them, and then they’re realizing it as they’re saying it, that they’re not spending their money in alignment with their values.
Abby Morton:
Okay. So it sounds like it’s not maybe even hard. It’s just them discovering that and talking through that out loud, which they’ve probably not ever really done before. They’ve never stopped to probably question it, which is why they’re coming to you for some help.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah. I think everybody needs a discussion partner.
Abby Morton:
I love that. I love that term.
Angela Johnson:
Yeah, that’s what I feel like I am.
Abby Morton:
That’s so great. Talk to me just a tiny bit about, you said you go through the Elements and explain what those are. Another common pushback we get is, “This is a lot of financial jargon. It’s a lot to teach everyone.” Talk to me about how you’ve educated your clients or helped them understand what QT means and LT and BR and DR. Do you feel like you spend hours of time trying to educate them?
Angela Johnson:
No. I’m only pausing because I don’t personally see any financial jargon. Everybody knows what debt is. Everybody knows what an asset is. Everybody knows what the words you can live on your investments in retirement for X number of months or years. I think it’s pretty basic. So do I spend tons of time… It is a different way to look at it. I like that you can hover over the element and see what the calculation is. That’s pretty clear. So that addition has been helpful. No, what we have spent the most time on… So people who we’ve brought on to Elements who are brand new to the firm have been a breeze because this is our expectation and this is the system that we use. People who were with me before, who I didn’t have the tools or resources to do anything like that, getting them on board takes a while. Their onboarding is a little bit… Takes a little bit longer. So we’re looking for ways to make that take less of my time, really, because they just wanna come in and talk and set some goals and leave. And they take action on them. But it’s showing them Elements in their meeting where they’re sitting down and they’re kind of… They can’t leave. They can, but that’s what they are there for.
Angela Johnson:
We have it on the screen in the conference room or on a separate screen share on Zoom. And let’s say 95% of people, once they’ve seen it, and we’ve started… And you have to input things for them to understand, they love it. We have one customer who has a smartphone or a… I guess he has a smartphone with no data, and he’s 35.
Abby Morton:
Really?
Angela Johnson:
He’s like, “I’m not gonna use this.” So yeah, there’s outliers everywhere. I’m gonna round up and say, everyone who has seen it, who we’ve spend time onboarding, loves it.
Abby Morton:
Okay, I like that. What’s the magic there? Why do you think everyone loves it?
Angela Johnson:
I think that they love it because they can change… They can see as they make changes to their, let’s say, savings rate. If they have decided that they can save $500 a month instead of $100 because they cut down on DoorDash, then they can see their savings rate. They don’t need to wait six months or a year to come back in and find out if that was the right thing to do.
Abby Morton:
I love that.
Angela Johnson:
And then we do the monthly insights, and so we’re saying, “Hey, we noticed your savings rate went up. Good job. Is there anything else we can help you? Do you have any questions for us about that? How is it going?” So they like that, which makes it easier on me as far as meetings go, because there’s… We can talk about more important things in the meeting or even just bigger concepts, or get into nitty-gritty because all of the entries are updated. I don’t have to spend 30 minutes asking, “How’s it going? How did it go this past six months?” I already know.
Abby Morton:
You know. I love that. I think that’s so great. I would like to add to that though, that I love that you’re sitting down with your clients in the meetings, you pull it up, you’re saying, “This is the tech we’re using.” I think you’ve also set a good foundation for them to be successful. I think just handing Elements out to someone and, “Hey, do you like this?” It can take a minute for someone to understand really what it means. And so I think you as a firm, you and Anthony, I think have done a good job at helping people come along with you in their financial planning journey, which I think is a big deal. Glad that you were working with those delegators who’re saying, “Hey, help me do all this.” So I think that’s also the clientele that you’re serving. But I think that, I would add to what you’re saying, is a big deal as well. Okay. Well, we’re about out of time. What any final thoughts do you have for our listeners is to try new things, starting a new practice? What wisdom would you maybe give to other financial advisors who’re trying to do something similar to you?
Angela Johnson:
So quick story. When I was an insurance agent, I wrote a book with another person, called… It doesn’t matter what it’s called. But it was at the beginning of social media, and it was how insurance agents can use social media to grow their business. And we got so many, “Aren’t y’all cute,” “That’s so sweet,” “What are we?”, “I’m just gonna have my daughter do Facebook for me,” or, “I’m gonna get the least talented person in my company to run Facebook for me. But no, we don’t want your book,” or, “We don’t wanna come to your conference.” But it started growing steam, and now everybody’s trying to figure out or utilizing social to grow their business. So I think of Elements as the same way. I’ve talked to advisors who have either never heard of Elements or heard of it, but they think they… And it’s changing quickly, but they’re thinking that they’re gonna offer Elements to 21-year-olds, and that’s not even who they want in their business, and blah, blah, blah.
Angela Johnson:
I just think that, first of all, as I mentioned, people from 20 to 70, in my practice, love Elements. And so I would encourage people to be an early adopter, because your clients are gonna like it, it will help you organize your business, it will help your clients feel organized. That’s what people say, that they really enjoy seeing everything in one dashboard. Not that I control and they get to look at once or twice a year, but they can look at any time they want. And it’s not age-based. That’s the thing that I hear from other advisors right now, is more about younger clientele and they either don’t have any or they don’t want any, and I just think that’s the wrong approach as far as building a business that’s gonna last. It can’t all be built on people who are retired and picking money out of their balance. It needs to be based on bringing an accumulator. So that’s what we’re doing.
Abby Morton:
I love it. I love it. I think that’s a really great message, that Elements is not just for the young millennials. It works across the board, and it resonates, I think, with people across the board. So I love that final message. Thanks so much. Angela, I really appreciate you on the podcast today and all your insights. I know our listeners will love to have what you… Will love to hear what you have to say.
Angela Johnson:
Thanks for having me.
Abby Morton:
Have a good one.
[music]
Abby Morton:
Next time on Elementality.
Reese Harper:
The medium-sized events, the reason that they’re so impactful for most financial advisors is it… And I’d consider this like a dinner. A dinner event is a medium size event. Right?
Abby Morton:
Yeah. Okay.
Reese Harper:
People are actually experiencing something with you that’s much more personal to them about their own data. They’re usually coming with some sort of consideration of you as a person that could give them advice, and they’re asking questions, and the Q&As are way more dynamic, and you’re able to really get someone to open up a bit, be a little bit more vulnerable. And so your conversion rate on a medium size or a small event like that is gonna feel more like the traditional consultation.
Abby Morton:
To find out more about Elements, go to getelements.com/demo. Elementality’s executive producers are Reese Harper and Carl Richards. Elementality is produced by Tad Henderson Henderson and directed by Abby Morton. Have a good one.